Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi. I just got a Savannah Monitor. It is my first monitor. I have beardies, a crested gecko, snakes and frogs, so I am not new to herping, but just a new area. He is a young monitor, about 20 inches long (Total Length). For now, I have him in a 70 gallon plexiglass tank (36 inches long, 36 inches tall, and 20 inches deep). I know I will need a bigger tank soon, but until I build him one, I am hoping this will do for a month or two. However, the tank has a flimsy screen on it that will easily be pushed through if the monitor reaches it. Does anyone have any suggestions of a good screen material to put on the top? I have read a few posts that say that monitors will get dehydrated with a screen lid. Is this true? Why isn't this the case with other reptiles? All of my tanks have screen lids and I have never had a problem, even with my high humidity (60-80%) ball python tank that stays at 95F in the basking area or with my beardies that stay even warmer in the basking and have low humidity. The other problem is that I don't have a lot of tools or carpentry skills. I can hammer, drill and glue, but anything too much more complicated than that is more than I can handle. My new tank will be built by my boyfriend, but he his not around until next week and I need something before then. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Robin

i have a savannah monitor it is also about the same size and same size cage the top i have is a a metal wire and is like a screen but stronger im not sure what its called i just know they have it at hardware stores just find one thats pretty hard and kinda flexable.
Im not sure about you dehydration question because like you my ball python,bearded dragon have had no problems neither have my other reptiles. i think if you keep a water bowl large enough to soak in the monitor will be fine.

An all screen top is not ideal. You want a top solid enough
to keep the humidity contained. I think the danger of screen
tops dehydrating monitors is somewhat exaggerated but it is
a concern.

Perhaps you could fit a piece of plexiglass onto the existing
lid that will cover the majority of the top.

You definetly want the top to be secure, if there's a way to
escape a monitor will find it.
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

i was gonna send a pic but my cameras being a pain in the well u know any way yeah my cage was a half glass half screen but the glass broke one day when i was cleaning it so it is all wire till i can fix it. so it is a good idea to use plexi glass and if you do use screen make sure it is strong enough to hold. i use peices of tile to hold the lid down i do the same with my python so they both stay in their cage .

You could soak a towel with water and lay on the screen to help increase the humidity if you need to. I have heard of people using 2 belts wrapped around the bottom and top with screen tops to keep them on tight. I agree that if the screen top is too flimsy the monitor will have little trouble excaping.
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Ed

There are water dragons, chameleons, frilled dragons, pythons, and monitors in my jungle room.

Screen lids allow most of the heat to rise straight out of the top, and where do you like all of the moisture goes also? You cannot get a decent basking temp without a solid top, and vents on the sides unless you place a piece of plexiglas under the screen and mount the basking light inside of the cage.
Dehydration occurs because monitors like many many other reptiles use very high basking temps, therefore just like a "beef jerky" machine you have a slowly (depends on the animals condition and will) dehydrating and dieing animal that will die from kidney failure by crystalized uric acid buildup in the kidenys from long term dehydration, this was something verified by many many people years ago. Aquariums are difficult to use as proper reptile housing, they are made for fish after all which live in water. Its almost easier to build a suitable cage besides the escape factor with aquariums, most medium and large monitors can easily force the lids off with heavy weights and straps holding the tops on.
It all depends what you are looking for in your monitor, if you want a temporary disposable pet then by all means use a screen top, it will happen sooner or later, after all these are animals that live 15-35 years or more.

I totally agree with you. I also admit that you know a lot more about keeping monitors than I do.

She said it would only be a month or 2 before she has a better cage for her sav. It is not going to be too detrimental to keep it in an aquarium for 4 to 8 weeks while it is small, would it?
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Ed

There are water dragons, chameleons, frilled dragons, pythons, and monitors in my jungle room.

Ive done it myself for a few weeks or so, but I also kept a dish big enough to soak at the time in the cage, one doesnt make the other too much better but it can make a temporary bandaid. The problem being with screen tops in short term is that their temps never reach where you want them to and your using 75-150 watt bulbs. I figured out years ago by pure accident that a solid top cage worked better, but didnt learn the reasons why until I buried a monitor that had the same problem described above. No dirt to dig in was also a problem with a few.

I do tend to agree with your statements SHvar,
but not about it being impossible to create a
hot enough basking spot without a solid top.
There are lots of different bulbs out there.
Have you ever used spotlights? Of course I'm
thinking of 130f-140f temps not 200f 24/7.
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

While many things can be used successfully, some like spotlites tend to be more successful at burning holes in monitors.

Remember, you are trying to help the people with the least understanding of husbandry, not keepers who are already successful and have a good understanding of the use of lites.

I am sure, I could use spotlites(and I have) but there are many safer and more successful bulbs out there.

I bow my head and say, accidents happen when unexpected, those who do not know what to expect, have many accidents. Respectfully FR

Please look a the photo below. This photo was
taken in 1993. Ackies were not a disposable
pet back then. They were imported from Germany
and I paid $1000 apiece for them. Their basking
spot was 120F which was ahead of my time, if I
do say so myself. That light above them is a
deadly spotlight. If you think I ever endangered
animals with a signifigant monitary value, think
again.
Neal

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pale reason hides the infinite from us

I reread my post, and if you can take that as a threat, you need to seek professional help, please do.

In lue of that, You really should, READ THE POST. If you want to make this about you personally, Then please join the others who are more sensitive about themselves, then having a discussion about monitors and stay away from me.

The danger is with keepers new to monitors. From what you said, this surely cannot be about you.

Now, because you make it about you. Which I did not. I will ask this. if that worked so well, then you must have produced lots and lots of babies, we all know how ackies are. Then you must have taken many pics of such?

Also, please, what does their monitary value, have to do with it. ITs about burning holes in monitors(which spotlites do), who cares what they are worth. And yes, keepers have burned holes in very very exspensive monitors(me for one, hehehehehehehehehehehehehhe)

Fortunately for monitors, times change and things should get better. Now ackies are produced by many many, including kids.

So threatening you, is bringing up the fact, that spotlites have a history of toasting monitors, hmmmmmmmmmm I think I will use that at the bar tonight. Hey buddy, you use spotlites! I going to pound you(example for the bar, nothing to do with N_E)(I have to mention that in order for N_E to not think its about him)oh man, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

How this discussion could have gone, if someone was not so sensitive about themselves. Hey FR, I have used spotlites and they seemed to be fine, then you posted your pic. Then FR could have said, Well, what if a newbie, used a shorter cage and had the spotlites within a few inches of the monitors. Then you said, wow, do people really do that. Then FR says, while that may sound odd, it happens, ALL THE TIME.

But again sadly, IT DOES NOT, hahahahahahahaha, by the way, how did u know what temp it was in 93? heatguns were not in use then and the thermostats of that day, did this meltdown thing with put under a spotlite. FR

I know that you're not threatening me, I was refering
to the "Neal your treading on dangerous ground". As a
subject line it does sound a bit threatening. I'm only
making light of that line. However it did seem that you
were implying I was wrong about spotlights.

Althouh I'd like to help all the newbies keep their
monitors healthy and happy, thats pretty much impossible.
The only way they will learn is the hard way. I seems
this forum is good for posting pics and talking about
monitors. The original poster on this Screened lid topic
has probably has not even read all our responses. Maybe
they already decided it was too much trouble and passed
the sav off to someone else. I mean who knows if they
really care about a $5 lizard.

I have never burned any holes in any monitors. I have
however made other serious mistakes. One might have
been selling my entire monitor collection just as I was
getting some to breed. The two ackies in the photo turned
out to be both males.

Actually 'temp guns' have been around for industrial
purposes for much longer that herpers have been using
them. That is not how I determined the temps though.
If used properly a standard cheapo thermometer can
measure the basking spot temps. It may not be quite
as precise the temp guns we all use now, but it does
the job. What did you use to measure the basking temps
in 1993?

In the coming weeks and months I will no doubt post many
photos of monitors I have kept. If I point out that you seem
to be subtley implying I'm a liar, does that make me too
sensitive?

I'm sure that you have hatched more monitors than I ever
will. I do disagree with some of the definitive statements
that SHvar makes. To say that it is impossible to create
a hot enough basking spot with a screened top is simply
not true.

I have a good deal of respect for you Frank. If you can say
"Neal your treading on dangerous ground" can't I say "Frank
are you threatening me?"? I guess my sense of humor is a bit
too dry.

Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

Please, learn to read without concentrating on how it effects your psyche.

I did not say, you were wrong about anything. I suggested/said/indicated, that spotlites have been misused by beginers and that its dangerous for them. Which it is, by the way.

Why don't you ask others, as many as you want, how dangerous spotlites can be. Holy moly.

So, how did your ackies fair? FR

These are your words:

"I am sure, I could use spotlites(and I have) but there are many safer and more successful bulbs out there."

"ITs about burning holes in monitors(which spotlites do), who cares what they are worth. And yes, keepers have burned holes in very very exspensive monitors(me for one, hehehehehehehehehehehehehhe)"

You seem to be talking about advanced keepers when you refer
yourself. Sorry if I misunderstood. If the light is positioned far enough
above or there is a barrier between the monitor and the light, how can
it burn holes in them? Obviously an advanced keeper would know
enough to keep the monitors from getting too close and burning
themselves. Newbies aside, how are spotlights unsafe?

My spiny tails faired just fine.

Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

Like the old pick a paragraph and spin it, then go ahead.

But this is what I said,

Posted by: FR at Sun Sep 26 12:13:21 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Sep 26 12:51:10 2004

How that reads is,

The title, "Neal, your treading on dangerous ground", is not a threat, its either an alarm or a warning. The post or subject is suppose to define the title. If I yelled at you, NEAL your threading on dangerous ground, your responce should be to look at the ground and see whats dangerous about it. It should not be, Frank are you threatening me. Indeed you should look down at the subject of the post.

The first paragraph saidWhile many things can be used successfully, some like spotlites tend to be more successful at burning holes in monitors. This is simple, it means exactly how it reads, Possibly I should have said, types of lites, instead of things.

The next paragraph, clarifies the first, it defines whom it concerns, it said, Remember, you are trying to help the people with the least understanding of husbandry, not keepers who are already successful and have a good understanding of the use of lites.It does not mention you as anything, newbie or other. Only who may be recieving your advice.

The third paragraph, said; I am sure, I could use spotlites(and I have) but there are many safer and more successful bulbs out there. This explains that spotlites could be used successfully(as you have said, you have), it did not mention if I were an expert or if you were. It said, there are safer and more successful bulbs out there, which you fail to mention. Maybe you should have asked what those are and how they are used.

The last paragraph, said; I bow my head and say, accidents happen when unexpected, those who do not know what to expect, have many accidents. This little saying again does't mention you as anything or suggest that I am anything. Only that accidents happen when not expected, kinda what defines them as accidents. If you expected them, they could not be considered accidents. So, sir, how did I threaten you? Thanks FR

I guess, I have uncovered another spin doctor. You see, I can play the paragraph game as well. FR

Well now that you've qualified your words with
addition explanations it is much more clear
what you really meant. So now I'm a spin Doctor.
I don't know if that's supposed to be a compliment,
but since reality is composed of linguistical
structures, I'll take it as a compliment.

Actually, I'm not sure anyone has ever said that
"treading on dangerous ground" line to me before.
I looked at the ground, saw nothing and wondered
what you were talking about. Again, I was JOKING
when I asked if you were "threatening me". C'mon
man this is just an internet forum.

I was interested in the spotlight issue but now
I'm just laughing at how silly this is. Think
whatever you like about me Frank.

Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

Spotlights can act just like a magnifying glass if used wrong.
When you were a kid did you ever take a magnifying glass to some ants? If not, you missed out on some great fun. Hahahaha.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

If I see Frank in a bar and he says: "hey buddy you use spotlights!"
I'm probably gonna call him outside. Joke

Anything can be deadly if used foolishly. Drink too much water
too fast and you're dead.

Maybe FR should be asking me how I have used spotlights without
any burned monitors. Think of all the tragic burns to expensive
monitors that may have been prevented had I enlightened him back
in '93, how allowing a monitor to get too close to a hot bulb should
be avoided.

For the proper way to use a spotlight refer to the pic I posted.

Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

I don't get it dude. Its a question of betters. You are using what 4 spot bulbs, I read that post earlier this evening so I don't remember correctly.

I use 1 bulb in my kimberly enclosure and it does the job, you use 4 and it costs a lot more and is less effective (quantified by numbers).

Also, why screw around with it?

andrew

It's about DIFFERENT bulbs not better or worse. Please
look at the pic closer. There is only one bulb! The others
are just a reflection. Hahaha, I guess everyone creates
their own reality. You're free to use any bulbs you like and
won't hear me saying otherwise.
Thanks for looking.
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

They are mounted from with a solid top cage with 45 watt halogen flood bulbs, mounted from 7 inches to 14 inches. A spot I tried as an example once, it made a 220f spot 3-4 inches across at almost 2 ft away, thats dangerous to say the least (only 45 watts again). Screen tops are not made for reptiles, they need to be adapted to be useful for them by blocking most of it off and leaving some small vent holes. Remeber the higher the temps the more important a solid top is, the heat and moisture rises alot faster.

Of course its possible to keep a Sav in a cage with a screen lid. Its done all the time. In fact, its the very most common method Savs are kept in captivity. The vast majority are doing it.

Most petshops sell a tank, with a sliding metal lid, full of holes or screen. They also sell you a hide(?) a waterbowl, some cypress mulch or rug for the floor and metal lite fixture to sit on top the lid. They also may sell you a fabulous UV bulb to go in the fixture. Maybe even a can of Varagrow monitor tidbits, a complete diet in a can. Then seven kinds of suppliments to add to the "most" complete diet ever known to man. Remember, all this has been tested by the "leaders" in their field.

Why else would they sell you all this stuff?

Its a good thing they do this, as there are somewhere in the area of 1/4 million baby savs imported every year. Just think what would happen if they all or most, lived. There would be a log jam of Savs all over our country. In four years, there would be near one million sav keepers on this forum(oh yea) Surely, the forum could not handle that.

Yup, its a good thing, your sold all that stuff, or there would be entirely too many Savs around.

So to keep this thread and forum, going, you all talk amoungst yourselfs, you know, discuss the merits of what I said. thanks FR

n/p
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

?

I guess that was too philosophical?
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

The petstore lures you in with a $5 lizard (bosc monitor) for $50, and sells you a $25-$50 glass aquarium made for fish with a screen top, a 75-150watt reptile bulb for $7-$15, a dome lamp for $15, some astroturf for $10, a water dish for $5, some cheap vitamin supplement for $10 a can, and a decorative rock basking spot for $15, all the while you think "wow, I only spent $50 on this monitor", in reality youve now spent $170.00 and you havent even bought food for the animal yet. Your bosc dies from unexplained kidney failure anywhere from 3 months to a year or so time and your back to buy a replacement because it was only $50, and that same pet store has many more to seel cheaply when that one dies.
Its all about making money and getting you out the door fast. The petsore employees dont know squat about keeping reptiles properly so they tell you buy this, this, and this to make money off of you and get you going.
If they werent kept in screen top cages there wouldnt be overweight dieing dehydrated boscs in every 10th household or so and the pet stores wouldnt sell millions every year because they would be alive and breeding, then $300 CBB savannahs would be sold more often.

n/p
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

I disagree with the people who make doom and gloom forecasts about the evils of using a screen top. You can, in fact, use a screen top, and that does not necessarily condemn your animal to a slow dehydration death. I think they exaggerate quite a bit. However, there are some things of note for using a screen top.

First, heat does rise so you will probably need to use a higher wattage bulb for a screen top to accomplish the same basking spot that you could use a lower wattage bulb to achieve for an enclosure with a more solid top. That results in more heat in your bedroom, living room, or wherever you keep the animal. It also adds up financially depending on the number of animals you keep.

Second, dehydration is an issue, but it is fairly easily resolved. You will need a water container large enough for the monitor to soak in. If it has water available to drink and/or soak in, then it will regulate its moisture levels on its own. You can also use a substrate that allows it to bury itself in and spray that down with water on occasion and that will also help.

Third, the key to anything with monitors or any other animal is adjustments and awareness. If your monitor does nothing but sit in the water dish, then that probably means there is a problem and you need to figure it out and correct it. This point applies to all aspects of your husbandry.

So, you can go about things in multiple ways and find the right way for you and your animal.

Now, in terms of what you can do for your immediate problem. If you are simply waiting for your boyfriend to return to build a lid and/or cage, then you can do something as simple as putting a board over the screen to prevent your monitor from getting out. Put a few heavy books on the board and that should keep your monitor contained until your boyfriend can build something. Keep in mind, you will still need to have a basking spot so the board will not completely cover the top. Maybe use two boards? I am not sure if pet stores sell a screen top that would fit your aqaurium, but it might be worth a look.

Good luck.
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^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

SHvar chimed in with a perfect example of what
I meant by "somewhat exaggerated".
Neal
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pale reason hides the infinite from us

n/p
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pale reason hides the infinite from us