Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was asked earlier if my MATURE adult nerodia would willingly accept thawed, scented mice. Answer - NO!
My red belly really wanted her (2) mouse meals but I found it difficult (several minutes and multiple strike/bites) to convince her to grab and hold. Once she had taken the first, it was swallowed as fast as possible. The second, also offered with forcepts, was initially dropped then accepted when offered again.
The yellow belly (very shy, reclusive snake) refused altogether. He did take two goldfish which where draped over the mouse but could not be enticed to accept the mouse itself.
This particular snake has been allowed to remain "aloof" due to his initial shyness and was therefore provided an excessive amount of ground cover, thereby retaining his wild, cautious and suspicious attitude.
This same nerodia has also refused all but one other food item other than fish. This was a single event when "sausage" was offered (fortuneatley this was his de-worming meds) and has not accepted it since.
Michael

Meant to mention that the banded and northern young adults noted below where fed grown mice (again since Sunday) at the same time and received them without hesitation.

I've had several redbellies that had been converterted to rodents, adults and juvies, in as little as a week in captivity. At one point I had four adult redbellies and all were feeding on unscented mice.

The key I've had luck with, is feeding in the same manner with the same tools, every time. If I took the mouse off the tongs, held them my hand, it was a no-go. Even if I presented it the smae way as I did with the tongs. In fact if I didn't have the tongs in hand when I came up to the cage, I couldn't get a feeding response at all.

Just some stuff I've had experience with and my penny-penny. Below is a male that I had feeding on unscented mice...3 at a time! lol

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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

This occurred to me also as I offered the yellow his food. I gave him his mouse in his water dish (dry dish) as I do his trout and goldfish (though goldfish are in water). When he refused the mouse, I tried the forcepts to no avail. I wondered if I was messing up his "system"?
Considering the red, the way it hit the mouse, I sensed that she WANTED a mouse and not a fish tainted rodent! However, she was hissing, impling anger so I re-scented and succeeded ...
My problem may simply be that 99% of food offered including my sausage, is strongly fish scented. Especially with the trout which smells pretty strong going in and worse coming out!
Michael

In my experience, a snake that is willing to bite and not run, is willing to take to that method of feeding. I've used the same "tease feeding" techniques with WC asian ratsnakes. If you really want a N.erythrogaster to pound mice, feed him a few times on live frogs or mice(which hop around a lot on the forceps or tongs) and then switch to a scented mouse and literally hop it around the snake a few times....then a light bump on the snakes side will cause a feeding response strike followed and 9 times out of 10 I haven't had any problems with release, unless the snake is trying to swallow it sideways, which happens, and has to drop it to rearrange.

Anyway, this is my technique for those who want to try it themselves. A lot of people don't like the use of amphibian feeders due to parasites and such, which I agree with. That's why I only use them for a quick switch procedure, and have found it easier to impersonate a frog or toad with a mouse, than a fish...lol
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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

That could well be my problem ... I was using the fish technique!
The young adults grabbed the head straight on while the mature red kept targeting the flank. Trouble is, that's where the forcepts were, so I withdrew the mice until she could only grip forward of them. As for "pounding them back", that's as good a description as any - those thawed mice were'nt getting away, dead or alive!
The only nerodia I have that is'nt taking mice now is the yellow belly. His name is Schiz which is short for "Insanely Hysterical, Black arrow Heading for Cover". The last time I tapped him with a mouse, when I woke up, there was a rodent head in my bed!
Notwithstanding, I shall endeavor to sway him whatever the consequences. Maybe I was too sissy about it, next time I'll let him KNOW it's time to eat!

I feed all my Nerodia rodents off of tongs so I can move the rodent around. I either feed live fish in the water bowl or occassionally off of tongs if I'm in the mood. I have many snakes that are conditioned to bite whatever is on the end of the tongs. For instance, I just dangled a rubberband in my Mangroves' cage with their feeding tongs. All three exploded from the substrate and bit the rubberband repeatedly (none actually held on). It just shows how they can be conditioned to the feeding method, not what's actually being fed.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

It the same thing I do with garters, with the same results. Mine will even bite an empty tongs! My water snakes don't have any problems learning the same thing, without even smelling, which goes to show how much these guys ofter rely on site feeding rather than smell. Particularly when conditioned to do so. Glad to hear someone else has had similar results.

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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

That is what I have been saying for a long time. Routine, routine, routine. What has worked extremely well for me is training the snakes to eat out of their waterbowl. Once they get the idea, a f/t mouse dragged through the bowl triggers a feeding response. Has worked with every Nerodia I have tried it on.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: thekingofproduct
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

"Some things will never change. They just stand there looking backwards. Half-unconsious from the pain. They may seem rearranged. In the backwater swirling. There is something that'll never change-The Meat Puppets"

I have converted most of my CB Nerodia over to rodent-only or partial rodent diets. I have had trouble as of late getting my WC adult Redbellies to eat rodents (or anything for that matter) and I'm still working on two adult male WC clarkii clarkii. They'll strike fish-scented rat pinks but won't swallow them. Anything with more than a fine layer of hair is completely ignored, no matter how gooey with fish guts it is. In fact, I've covered fully haired mice in fish guts only to have the snake slurp off the entrails and leave the mouse completely untouched.

On the other hand, my female hybrid clarkii X fasciata took scented rat pinks from the get-go and now takes unscented right from my hands.

I guess different snakes have different preferences based on individual variations in genetics or predation experiences in the wild.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture