Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a reversed trio of pygmy rattlesnakes and I think the female is gravid. (I haven't investigated too closely. lol) Well anyway I threw in a couple mice a few days ago and thought they had been eaten. Well last night I noticed a funny smell coming from their enclosure and looked closer to find they had stockpiled the mice in the back corner!!! It was a neat little pile against the back wall and the female was laying on them!! I have never seen anything like this and neither have any of the other local breeders. Anyone else have anything similar happen?
Sera
S and M Reptiles

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3.6 ball pythons
1.2 king snakes (1 chocolate, 2 albino)
1.1 columbian red tail boas
1.1 pueblan milksnakes
2.2 african house snakes
2.2 striped albino applegate gophers
1.0 watersnake
1.2 burmese pythons (1 albino, 2 hets)
2.1 pygmy rattlesnakes
1.1 dumeril's boas
3.3 corns (miami, okatee, snow, caramel, 2 creamsicle)
1.1 jungle corns
0.1 american alligator
0.2 ferrets
0.2 degus

Don't mean to sound too harsh because I do not know you, and please be big enough to take it not personal, but are you really implying that you believe that your snakes piled up the mice? Do you maintain to convince people that you actually keep venomous snakes with a post like this in this day of age with our hobbie always under the gun due to ignorance and stupidity (not yours of course)? Your kidding right? Are you saying that you never checked your venomous snakes to see if they ate by noticing buldges in their bodies? And why in the earth would you throw or consider to throw in a couple of mice in with three snakes without observation and supervision and why not separate them for feeding in the first place? No snake likes to be confined with other snakes, and you should know that from extensive experience with colubrids before moving on to hots, so why house them together? How would you tell which ate and which did not at the next feeding?

If true, before you figure loose sleep trying to figure out the mice pile, your first business should be to transfer them to an experienced individual who can house and care for them properly.

You have to be making this up. I do not need the answers, just a forum that keeps kids out.

Having snakes kill and move food into there hides only to end up sitting on it is not uncommon. I have had snakes do this in the past and not known untill I smelt a stink. If I feed a snake and it retracts to its hide and stays there I do not usualy check to see if it has eaten. Why put the snake under stress to satisfy my curiosity? Most of the time they are just cooiled up out of sight for the long digestion. Granted most of my snakes do eat very reliably but even the haridest feeder can refuse food every once in a while. As a matter of fact I had pigs do this exact same thing in the past! I wouldnt call it common pig behavior but it obvisouly can happen. (BTW, no, I do not house snakes together except for when breeding.)

Basicly, if you are in there checking and handleing your snakes everyday then maybe you should rethink your keeping abilities too. I have always found snakes that were left alone unless absolutely needed fare much better. I am not stateing that everything he is doing is correct, far from it in fact but based on the above mentioned subject I do not think your response was warrented. Your other points do have some value however.

Cant we all just get along:-D

Peace,
Jeremy

Hey Jeremy, how's it going?

On snakes stashing food, it was noted in a presentation at the SHHS banquet last year that Fea's vipers are known for doing this. With quite regularity too, if memory serves me correctly.

-rhodostom

Michael!!! Whats going on my freind? How goes all in the lovly mid west? Hope you, the wife and the kids are all doing well. Still got that cotton? Belive it or not but I still have all of the Pituophis you sent me way back when(minus the male southern pine). The midget bull still hasnt grown, the female bull has calmed down dramaticly (belive it or not)and the female pine has put on some girth. I love em all man, thanks again!

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

I have noticed behavior similar to this in a few sp. My Aspidelaps will somtimes cover up food with their substrate and not eat it, in pirticular the scutatus (makes for a grand time trying to fish it out!). I have also had my A.c.mokasen grab food as if interested only to find it festering in his hide 2 days later. In the past my A.p.conanti would also show this behavior but now has gotten over being stuborn and eats anything and everything weather he shows initial excitment towards his prey or not. Last but not least are my purps. Though they usualy eat great they can get so rillied up that they wont take food even after having stuck their fangs in it. This is common though in tree vipers.

BTW, speaking of tree vipers, I have finnaly gotten the dang T.borneensis eating somwhat regularly again. She went 8 months without eating!!! I have now gotten 6 meals in her over the last month and a half so thats one monkey off my shoulder

Well man, its good to see ya around. Are you going to be in SC next month? I hope you can make it. I should be there with Cajun boy.

Take care bro,
J

P.S If you do make the show and still want the borneensis she is yours bud. I really feel that snake is on its way to being a great display animal. Let me know. You can also have a baby purp if you want:-D Its a great snake but meaner then hell!!! Not dangerous mind you, espicaly considering you have experince with Cantils. Consider them Cantils with limitations

Hey Fran, instead of putting down someone with what seems seems like a legitimate question, you should invest your energy and time into lobbying against venomoiders, freehandlers, and people who keep snakes illegally.....they're the real reason our hobby is under the gun. You obviously couldn't answer her question, so why chime in with insults? How could she not be offended?Although I do agree that three pygmy rattlesnakes shouldn't be kept together, especially while one is gravid, there are other ways to go about telling her that....it's called EDUCATION. And lack of it is another reason why the hobby is "under the gun". To answer the question, I have never heard of it, it seems kind of odd from a live bearing snake, but I'd say it's possible.
Make sure the female has a hide box, a good temp grade, and seperate her from the males. If you do choose to keep the snakes together, as some do, please seperate them at feeding, it eliminates all possibility of injury during feeding.
I'm sure there is someone out there that has heard of your question. On a side note, pygmy's are awesome little snakes, I had a male for about a year and a half that just died recently. I can't figure out what happened, it was fat, and ate well. It stopped eating right before I went away to Las Vegas and was dead when I returned. I'll have to get another at the Hamburg show.
Good luck

Well said TJP:

I was taken back by this crap spewed by Fran. If you don't have anything nice to say or can't answer the question just don't say anything. How are we supose to learn if we can't ask questions without being jumped on for differences in how collections are maintained? It was a legit question about a behaivor that was unheard of by Sera and to me. Frans points could have been expressed differently if he was trying to educate, rather than humiliate.

No, Sera I too have not heard of that behavior but I'ts good that there were some who did.

TJP: Sudden deaths like that are most likly due to internal paracites, worms or protozoans.
Contact me directly to discuss it further.

Al

First off I usually do observe by feeding with hemostats but they were not available to me at the time. And they are housed together because they just recently finished breeding and I am waiting for my breeder/dealer to come back to help supervise while I seperate them. I am not stupid (as you so graciously implied). It was just the weirdest thing I've ever seen. The f/t (not live and able to hurt my snakes) mice were scattered around the front of the cage by the class and about two days later they are in a pile in the back corner. You'd probably wonder if it happened to you too. So please don't patronize me with BS. I'm an experienced keeper/handler but new to hots, yes. That is why I am waiting for the breeder/dealer friend of mine to help me with seperating them as I don't want to make such kind people as yourself look stupid because I got bitten.
Sera
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5.7 ball pythons (7 normal, 3 het albino, 2 het axanthic)
1.2 king snakes (1 chocolate, 2 albino)
1.1 columbian red tail boas
1.1 pueblan milksnakes
2.2 african house snakes
2.1 striped albino gophers
1.0 watersnake
1.2 burmese pythons (1 albino, 2 hets)
2.1 pygmy rattlesnakes
1.1 dumeril's boas
3.3 corns (miami, okatee, snow, caramel, 2 creamsicle)
1.1 jungle corns
0.2 ferrets
0.2 degus
0.1 salcotta tortoise
1.2 mice
1.1 rats
0.0.1 human on the way

Thank you to everyone who didn't jump down my throat. As stated above I usually feed with hemostats so I can be assured they all eat but the hemostats weren't available because my boyfriend had taken them to a friends house to do a feeding for my snakes' last clutch. I threw them some mice because it was time to and the mice were dead and not able to harm my snakes. They are only still together because of my feared inability to be inadequate to seperate them without incident. I have a breeder/dealer friend who usually helps and supervises. I'm waiting for him to return from a short trip to do this. The snakes seem fine together and usually curl up together in the back corner hide where I found the mice. Occasionally they spread out from eachother over the length of their very large (5ftX3ftX2ft?) enclosure. So I didn't see a problem waiting for an experienced handler to supervise the seperation.
Sera
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5.7 ball pythons (7 normal, 3 het albino, 2 het axanthic)
1.2 king snakes (1 chocolate, 2 albino)
1.1 columbian red tail boas
1.1 pueblan milksnakes
2.2 african house snakes
2.1 striped albino gophers
1.0 watersnake
1.2 burmese pythons (1 albino, 2 hets)
2.1 pygmy rattlesnakes
1.1 dumeril's boas
3.3 corns (miami, okatee, snow, caramel, 2 creamsicle)
1.1 jungle corns
0.2 ferrets
0.2 degus
0.1 salcotta tortoise
1.2 mice
1.1 rats
0.0.1 human on the way

Well, I recently got out of snakes altogether, and had not as yet moved into venomous, but youi might want to waqtch your Dumerils boas for the same behavior. My female used to do that quite a bit-she always was a picky feeder so I'd give her a prekilled rat, watch her strike it, and leave her alone. I usually left her alone for at least a day due to her being so skittish, and about 1 in 5 times she'd do something a lot like what you're describing.
Good luck with the pigmies