Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I have two speckled rattlesnakes in a 55 gallon aquarium. At one end is a 50w GE spotlight bulb that generates an air temperature of about 95 degrees and the rocks below should be the same temperature. On the other end is a rock hide and a cooler temperature of 80 to 82 degrees. I have the light on a timer from 8AM to 8PM. The snakes seem to be doing fine, however, they are digging a lot (pushing sand up from the corners and sides of the tank). Does anyone know why they may be doing this? Perhaps a stupid question, but it is always better to be safe than sorry.

Thanks,
viridix

Is the air temp.(95F) you are refering to close to the rocks or directly under the light? Was 80-82F the temp of the rock or the sand?
I've read that C.m. ssp. have an avg. prefered body temp of 88.2F(N=31;Range=18.8-39.3). Perhaps your snakes were exposing themselves to as much heated sand as possible to get to their prefered body temperature. They do originate in a desert, and their body temps. do get well above 100, maybe you are not keeping them hot enough.
I'm not saying to keep them in the 90's, but the high eighties should suffice, if I am correct in this hypo.
OR, maybe your snakes need a a hide or two, you didn't mention whether or not they had any.
creep

Thanks for the info.
I'll post a picture of my setup when I get a chance.

Here is my setup:

Close up of the rattlesnakes:

So you see how they have been digging? The thermometers are flush with the bottom of the black lining around the top (they range from 70 to 105) inside the tank, on the back. The one above the light is 94 degrees. The rocks below the light range from 87 to 90 degrees. The cool side of the tank, at the top, is 80 to 82 degrees on average. I think the hide is at 82 degrees. I still haven't caught either of them basking yet.

Thanks

First off, those are some nice looking snakes you have there, but I've always been fond of mitchelli. Also, that is a nice, clean setup.
Secondly, the temp. range you mentioned in your last post sounds right for this species. As they shift from diurnal in the spring to nocturnal during the summer months, they would also shift from using direct heat or air temp. in the spring to radiant heat(from the rocks and other forms of substrate in their habitat) in the summer. I'm going to have to stick with my original thoughts thatthey are trying to increase as much physical contact with their substrate as possible in order to achieve and maintain their preferred body temp.
Try observing them when their lights are out, and, I'm assuming, that you are usually asleep. I myself am curious. Remember that their true environment will reach temps. far greater than you will let them reach in captivity.
Enjoy,
Bill

Thanks Bill.
I have noticed that at night they are extremely active as when I wake up in the morning there are quite a few sand dunes. I hate when the sand is pushed down and looks hard so everday I make sure that I rough up the sand. It's easier to clean out their cage daily and offer fresh water too (I have a few tank setups and all of them look natural, it's a lot harder to maintain than newspaper and a dog bowl ) This morning, actually, my pink speck was out and about around 10:00 which is normal, good signs.
Once again, thanks for the complement and information.
viridix

I'd be curious to know what the body temperature of your snakes actually is at any given point during the day. I politely disagree with the person who speculated that they go through some sort of "seasonal" change in active body temperature. To the contrary, it has been my overwhelming experience that mitch (like most North American Crotalus) don't really like it all that warm. Mine hit the heat coming right out of hibernation for the first month but after that, even with a gut full of food, I'll get low to mid-70's body temperature most of the time. A good example: My crotes (mitch and a couple of different viridis) have been at room temperature since the end of April. By that, I mean ambient temp in the snake room of 75-80 degrees, no heat lamps, heat pads, or anything like that. Touch one of snakes, and they're a bit cool to the hand. There are only a couple of North American snake taxae which need high temps to get them moving, like Salvadora and Masticophis, but 90-100 temps will cook most of them. Mitch happen to be one of those snakes that I often see while looking for boas. The time I usually see them out is when the temp hits about 70 and though I have seen them out during the day, as well, never when ambient temps get above 85 or 90. Though this is a species which occurs in the deserts, don't take that to mean that they like temps like a Chuckwalla or Desert Iguana. They do best for me when I just don't fuss with them too much!

The temp. (31.2C)88.2F was an average taken from 31 specimens who varied in body temp. from 18.8C(65.8F) to 39.3C(102.7F). I don't disagree with you that crots actually prefer body temps well below 80F. I would be interested to see any data you've collected regarding body temps. of wild snakes of this spp. Were they cloacal or direct environment temps.? I have only found one study done concerning this topic.
Copeia 1978(3) 439-42.
By the way, I appreciate the tact of your post.

I don't know where to find a copy of Copeia as old as that one. Did they get an average temp of 88 degrees from captive specimens or wild animals collected in situ. Perhaps you could post an internet link for us to see or scan and post from a flatbed? Given the technology of that vintage and what researchers really knew about crotes back in 1978, I wouldn't put too much weight behind it. Let me ask you: How often have your mitchelli measured a resting body temperature of over 100 degrees for any length of time? Consider also that number of specimens seen afield each year by guys not even really looking for them exceeeds that sample of 31 by 2 or three times, and the overwhelming majority are active at ambient temps between 70-80. I remember plenty of published scientific literature about Lampropeltis commenting on how rare a certain species was or how it did this or did that. 25 years later, we know much more and even though this and that data was published, it really didn't MEAN anything in terms of how the snakes actually operated. That's the category I put information like this "88-degree" thing in. Have I ever taken a cloacal temp on any of my crotes? No, but I can tell you that it's 76 degrees in the snake room right now and that if I turned on the heat strips, they's all head for the cool side of the cage. I can also take you mitch-hunting on a 70-degree May evening in Riverside County and have pretty good odds of seeing one but tell you that we better look up the snow forecast for "Hell" if it would be 90 degrees at 10:00PM. I think the worst mistake any of us, as keepers, can do is to impose a protocol or regimen upon our captives based on some obscure study (and 25 years old, at that!) that has little or no relevance to what we know today. Look at the photo this guy posted: Both snakes coiled up away from the heat. There you have it. The snakes always know what's best!

The snakes always know best? Then why would a juvie C.cerastes ssp. choke itself to death on an adult Phrynosoma spp., which there is more than one account of? In regards to thermoregulation, maybe so. But my bottom line was that they utilize what is available them, in a world of extremes. Ultimately, captivity negates that premise.

Why does a snake try to swallow a meal which is too prickly? I guess for the same reason the chicken crosses the road. Who knows, but that really doesn't mean anything in this case. I agree with the first part of your statement that snakes utilize what is available to them (like too prickly of a meal sometimes!) but also believe that captivity, in fact, VALIDATES that premise. After all, isn't it our goal as keepers to eliminate all the extreme variables which our captives would experience in the wild and whittle their environment down to only the parameters at which they do best? At least I have always believed this. Remove the six months without drinking water, the scant three or four meals a year, the predators, the parasites, and then the snake is essentially "freed up" to do its best for us. This has always been my formula for success with these guys. Perhaps you could advise us the circumstances either under your husbandry or in the wild in which the crotes you keep or see negate the value of captive observations like this?

Okay...
Growth rates: the exceeding of maximum sizes recorded from wild specimens(obesity resultant in abbrieviated life spans?).
Delayed oviposition (as of yet unexplained; I believe this has been refered to by either Bill Brown or William Martin, I'm not all too sure).
Those are two off the top of my head.
Personally, I think it is absurd to disregard all publications based entirely upon age. If this is the case, should all the work of individuals such as Fitch and Minton be classified as outdated?
Once again, and I'm not tryin to beat a dead horse, there is no other literature pertaining to the thermoregulation of mitchelli.
I do find it peculiar that people with extensive field experience do not attempt to furthur the extent to what we know about wild animals, not just regarding snakes, but all wildlife.
Maybe you could contribute, I'm sure we'd all(keepers and biologists) be appreciative. I know I would.

can be patriotic too.