Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am sure this is going to stir up a sh*t storm in this forum, but I have to ask. Just for the record so it doesnt sound like I condone this proceedure, I am totally against venomoids, that is of coarse unless it was performed to save an animals life. I was reading the post below about lawmakers and proposed bills due to people getting injured or killed by their venomous reptiles. It seems that the term Qualified Vet who performs venomoid surgery came up quite a bit. What is a Qualified Vet exactly? Now not being a vet myself, I cannot answer this. However, the last time I checked vets dont usually perform proceedures that are not required, that is unless they stand to profit from someones lack of knowlege. I do live in New York, and do keep a very large collection of venomous reptiles ( legally ). I have relatives and friends in various medical fields, and when I asked them this question, they all gave me the same answer. To their knowlege, a proceedure performed that alters the look of someone is plastic surgery and a proceedure performed to save someones life or correct an internal problem is necessary surgery. Now just to be fair, lets just say that all these proceedures are performed by men and women who have spent a good portion of their life learning and studying and then practicing at reputable places of health care. Now we all know that government has placed laws against practicing medicine illegally, or performing proceedures that are not necessary. Which leads me to this. If a qualified vet performs a venomoid surgery, where exactly did he learn this proceedure being that it is not taught in Veterinary school? I am not aware of one class or one school teaching these proceedures, and how does one come to the idea that they have now branched out on their own and created a new form of medical treatment for un-ailling animals. So the question remains, what exactly is a Qualified venomoid surgeoun? Personally, its someone who cares not for the animal, but for what he will stand to make in money from this. If they are supposed to be done for educational purposes, then why are so many available to anyone who can log on to the computer and find one in the classified ads?
Thanks,
Chris

Well, you've raised some good points. I won't argue with any of them.

However, I would suggest that we consider that there may very well be some venomoid surgeons out there who actually do care enough about the animals to try to keep stress and pain to the animal related to the surgury to a minimum, and have developed protocals which also minimalize chance of infection afterwards. There is no question that such procedures are unneeded in this hobby, and therefore inflict unnecessary stress and possibly pain for the animals that are altered, which stands for ethical debate. But 'qualified' or not, I am aware of at least a venomoid maker or two who seem to care very much for the well being of the snakes they perform surgeries on. Really, to be practical, how much would a venomoid king cobra be to anyone if it were afflicted with secondary infection and poor health due to such a procedure? Certainly not the $1200 that will be paid for it. It's not cost effective to ruin a snake you will make over a 200% profit on. To even get involved in such an endeavor in the first place would mean that one would HAVE to care enough about the welfare of the snake not to botch the surgery. This is not to say most venomoid makers DON'T botch surgeries in order to make a buck. But not all of them are that stupid. Otherwise this little craze would have died out years ago.

Secondly, the target market for venomoids is anyone who will pay for them... and some may be those involved in reptile education. Although I would guess most are not. But when education can be accomplished without being in close proximity to a venomous animal anyway, how might that place validity on venomoids? I've worked with venomoid snakes in educational environments, and while it was notably more exciting that being in a sterile classroom, I would prefer a less complicated, less stressful environment for the animals, personally.

You seem to be preaching to the choir. To use the words "qualified vet" is redundant. Like saying someone is a qualified doctor. What other kind of doctor is there, that would be unqualified and still manage to attain the status of DOCTOR? But your point is taken: is there a licensed (qualified) veteranarian that will perform venomoid surgeries for an unqualified population of snake keepers? Maybe somewhere, but it wouldn't be done durning an office visit. Your point, of course, if that if it's a procedure that a vet won't touch with a 10-foot dildo, then why is it a procedure that is defended by many within this very hobby? Good question.

Jaffo

“I am totally against venomoids, that is of coarse unless it was performed to save an animals life.”

What if the procedure saves a human life? Especially if the person isn’t the owner of the snake in the first place (i.e. neighbor, human offspring)??

“the last time I checked vets dont usually perform proceedures that are not required”

Ever heard of having a cat declawed, a dog neutered or its tail or ears cropped?

“If a qualified vet performs a venomoid surgery, where exactly did he learn this proceedure being that it is not taught in Veterinary school?”

It is called advancement in the field of medicine (a.k.a. teaching ones self)– happens all the time or we would still be using leaches to cure all ailments

“its someone who cares not for the animal, but for what he will stand to make in money from this.”

Who in this world is trying NOT to make money?? You? I doubt it!! Do you go to work everyday & say “I don’t need to be paid – keep the money”? NO!!! I would like to believe that the reason a Vet. would do the surgery is to potentially save a human life – cause anyone can make a mistake – including you.

“If they are supposed to be done for educational purposes, then why are so many available to anyone who can log on to the computer and find one in the classified ads?”

I never said anything about educational purposes but the reason you see so many is supply & demand. If no one was buying them – there would be no need to supply them. If you had kids in school & some knit-wit was allowed to bring a Cobra into a science class, would you not feel that your child was in no danger if the animal was rendered Venomoid? It can be done properly but there is always a risk w/ an animal that is Venomous – no matter what. It can be diminished but there is still a slight possibility. With a Venomoid animal (done properly), there is NO RISK. Forget about “staying out of strike range, yada. yada, yada!!" None – notta!!!

“So the question remains, what exactly is a Qualified venomoid surgeoun?”

A person - who is a Vet. - that can do the surgery properly.

Tis a good reply you made although I might have been a little less harsh....

onto the subject... coming from the veterinary field and I am a veterinary technician... a hysterectomy would essentially be the same thing as a venomoiding surgery...but I wont go into the details... everything in the body is basically redundant so to speak... and if you know your way around a similar organ or system then you can think your way through another with some basic knowlge of the system you are working on that is....

Lets see if I can answer a few of your questions in a much nicer way. Being that my post was one of simple question and you seem to feel a need to attack me for it. You can drop your ego, as I am fully aware of who you are and what you stand for.

What if the procedure saves a human life? Especially if the person isn’t the owner of the snake in the first place (i.e. neighbor, human offspring)??

If you keep the animals in secured enclosures in a room that is sealed off to entry such as my venomous room, then there is no risk to others. Its actually called responsible reptile keeping. If you cant safeguard the public or your family, and simply keep the animal for showing off, then do not keep it.

Ever heard of having a cat declawed, a dog neutered or its tail or ears cropped?

I have heard of all the above, and all are not condoned by me either. If people actually knew that neutering a dog or cat actually causes more problems, they may not do it. Declawing a cat is so you save your furniture, not for the cats benifit, and ear cropping is like plastic surgery. I keep very expensive German Shepards, and non have the ears cropped. They are all born with their ears standing straight up. A breed such as this do have litters with bent ears. This is a genetic defect brought on by long term improper breeding practices. My friend breeds all types of dogs for millitary and law enforcement. He could better explain this.

It is called advancement in the field of medicine (a.k.a. teaching ones self)– happens all the time or we would still be using leaches to cure all ailments

I understand there is a need for medical advancement. However what you are doing to a venomous snake is not an advancement in medicine. Its a profit driven act. It does not benifit the animal in any way at all. Think of the animal, not yourself.

Who in this world is trying NOT to make money?? You? I doubt it!! Do you go to work everyday & say “I don’t need to be paid – keep the money”? NO!!! I would like to believe that the reason a Vet. would do the surgery is to potentially save a human life – cause anyone can make a mistake – including you.

To make this statement, you would have to know me, and anyone who does could tell you I am not driven by money. I do go to work every day. I do what I have to to support my family. I do not turn down a paycheck. I do a ton of work for good people at no charge. I am motivated by doing the right thing for people and getting the right thing done in return. This doesnt always work out as this is life, but you learn from being taken advantage of. I am not motivated by greed. It seems as if in this hobby, some have forgotten about what made it so special that many people outside of it could not understand. Being able to work with or collect a species of animal that is misunderstood. Why take something that has all its natural parts and make it something its not. Here is what makes me laugh. You say its to save someones life. You dont know half ( I do not mean you directly ) of the people who buy these snakes, but you care that they do not get bit and killed. BS, you will make a ton of money off that animal, and your consience will be clear.

I never said anything about educational purposes but the reason you see so many is supply & demand. If no one was buying them – there would be no need to supply them. If you had kids in school & some knit-wit was allowed to bring a Cobra into a science class, would you not feel that your child was in no danger if the animal was rendered Venomoid? It can be done properly but there is always a risk w/ an animal that is Venomous – no matter what. It can be diminished but there is still a slight possibility. With a Venomoid animal (done properly), there is NO RISK. Forget about “staying out of strike range, yada. yada, yada!!" None – notta!!!

There is a risk of anything at anytime. This is life. Accidents do happen, thats why they are called accidents. As far as snakes in the classroom, there is no need to remove a snake from its cage to show it to children. I do have a child, and he is in no way in danger of my animals. The fact is, he does not evenb know what I have, because he is not allowed near my venomous room. He does know there is something in there, but he doesnt know what. Again, unless I open the door, no one can get in, that is without driving a car through it. Animals can be safely displayed and not handled. There is no need to handle a snake to show it to someone or to teach someone about them. You wouldnt pick it up in the wild to show someone, why do it in a classroom. There is a time and a place for everything.

Supply and demand. Well you are right about one thing, the more you want the more people will try and get for you. The reality is that anyone, but not everyone on this website and others looking for a venomoid is doing so so they can "be cool" while handling a potentially deadly animal. If you do not have what it takes to deal with the real thing, then do not keep it. Its as simple as that. All the venomoiders see is dollar signs. I do not believe they care one bit about your safety or mine, and I really hope you dont think they do.

I am sure there are plenty of excellent vets who can perform this surgery properly and with little or no real damage to the animal. I am also sure that plenty of these animals survive and do excellent in captivity. I guess its more of a moral issue then. Saving the animals life due to infection or whatever has its legitamacy, but rendering a deadly animal not deadly for profit or ego is not legitimate no matter how much you argue the point.

There are some really good posts here but one point really stuck out to me.

"To save a human life"

Simply put, a venomoid snake is created so that a person can "safely" handle his pet.

Right?

Or...in other words, the snake has to undergo unneccesary surgery so that a person (who is in no danger from the snake unless he chooses to own one)can have the pet of his choice, without the risk associated.

Bully for them.....

Kind of reminds me of those fish you see in the stores that have dye injected into them to make them "prettier". We put the health of the animal at risk to satisfy our needs.

That pretty much sums up why I am anti on this subject.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I keep venomous but do not own venomoids, for handling of any snake is not in the snakes benefit. Even a ball python does not "enjoy" handling so the only reason for a venomoid is to stress an animal that has already been stressed by unnecessary surgery in my opinion. But I want to say that keeping venomous when you have children and not explaining to them what they are and why they can not be handled is irresponsible. You say I would have to drive a car through your door to get to the snakes? I say I learned to pick locks at a young age. No I am not a professional thief or even an amateur one but I have gotten into everything from my house (locked out) to my (supposedly) bank-grade safe (lost the combination) and I am not a trained locksmith. Give your child a few years and a friend or two to egg him on and you'll have a dangerous if not very tragic situation on your hand. So to everyone, please, education not denial or surgery is necessary to make the keeping of venomous snakes a safer practice.
Sera
S and M Reptiles

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5.7 ball pythons (7 normal, 3 het albino, 2 het axanthic)
1.2 king snakes (1 chocolate, 2 albino)
1.1 columbian red tail boas
1.1 pueblan milksnakes
2.2 african house snakes
2.1 striped albino gophers
1.0 watersnake
1.2 burmese pythons (1 albino, 2 hets)
2.1 pygmy rattlesnakes
1.1 dumeril's boas
3.3 corns (miami, okatee, snow, caramel, 2 creamsicle)
1.1 jungle corns
0.2 ferrets
0.2 degus
0.1 salcotta tortoise
1.2 mice
1.1 rats
0.0.1 human on the way

Sera,
Thank you for the concern. I am sure that when the time comes and my son is old enough to understand what he will be taught, I will explain everything I know to him. He is only 15 months old, and it would be quite impossible for him to get remotely close to gaining access into that room. Believe me when I tell you it would take more than picking a lock to get in there. Having a friend in the Security business and being a fellow venomous keeper himself, its not hard to make a room entry proof. Believe me when I say that I would never underestimate the curiosity of a child. I have done plenty of stupid stuff as a kid as well. I do agree that education is also the best deterent, especially when teaching about dangerous and potentially deadly situations. Again, when keeping a reptile or any other animal, its the owners resposibility to keep the people around you safeguarded. I read plenty other forums such as the Anaconda forum, and it seems like escapes are becoming a very popular topic there. Personally, if the animal has gotten out once, its due to lack of proper housing and irresponsible keepers. There should never be a moment in which you should have to worry about whether or not your critter can escape. Its up to you to do the right thing and provide a safe and secure environment for both you, your famaily and neighbors, as well as your animals.
Thanks,
Chris

Okay I misunderstood your post. At 15 months you really have nothing to worry about. I was thinking more like 15 years. lol. I am also expecting my first child and that is why my fiance and I are moving to a three bedroom home. One room for us, one for the baby, and one for snakes. Also we plan to babygate the back hallway to the snake room while the baby is still too "little" to manuver it. And the door has a lock that is out of the baby's reach. Also the room is "snakeproof" to the very best of our ability as well as locking cages. I know most keepers are responsible but I also know that mothers can deny how "evil" children can be. Mine does, my fiance's does, and I'm sure I will. Its a matter of safety for all as you said and I'm glad you provide it.
Sera
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5.7 ball pythons (7 normal, 3 het albino, 2 het axanthic)
1.2 king snakes (1 chocolate, 2 albino)
1.1 columbian red tail boas
1.1 pueblan milksnakes
2.2 african house snakes
2.1 striped albino gophers
1.0 watersnake
1.2 burmese pythons (1 albino, 2 hets)
2.1 pygmy rattlesnakes
1.1 dumeril's boas
3.3 corns (miami, okatee, snow, caramel, 2 creamsicle)
1.1 jungle corns
0.2 ferrets
0.2 degus
0.1 salcotta tortoise
1.2 mice
1.1 rats
0.0.1 human on the way

"Or...in other words, the snake has to undergo unneccesary surgery so that a person (who is in no danger from the snake unless he chooses to own one)can have the pet of his choice, without the risk associated."

What about the guy in Northern OH whose daughter was bitten by his Cobra that got out?? What about the guy in TX whose Cobras were running the neiborhood? Did any of them have a choice?

YES THEY DID. The owners had the same choice I did-not to keep a venomous snake if they couldn't do it safely. What has that got to do with surgecaly altering an animal for someone's conveiniance? Two entirely different topics.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

talking about the people in jeopardy 'cause the owner of the snake had no one else in mind but himself. Just like you ranting about you not supporting this or that, you not keeping cobras, you, you , you. Everything is not about you. This is America & people should be allowed to keep Venomoids, HOTS, or to take pictures w/ their snakes, or whatever w/out being harrassed by people like you. Try being considerate of others.....

If you cannot answer with some decorum, please don't burden me with rudeness. I have not gotten personal to this point and I think you might want to reconsider that position.

Placing logical arguements is not RANTING. Wake up. This is a Debate forum. that means BOTH sides of an issue have the right to be expressed. Not just yours.

Taking an opinion and expressing it on an open AMERICAN forum is NOT HARRASSING. I see you hide behind the flag when it is YOUR opinion that is being challenged, but you are quite ready to say I'm Harrassing when I disagree.

If I were to show up on your doorstep or mess directly with your business -that is Harrassing. I'm not the one making money off reptiles, so this is hardly all about me, as I have no financial stake in this.

Anyone who disagrees with YOU is being selfish and anti-American. is that what your trying to say?

To get to what we were supposed to be discussing....

It is exactly about the owner's choice. All consequences go back to that person's choice to either keep a potentially dangerous animal...or have one altered for his convieniance. Any Keeper who does not think that everyone that might come in contact with his animals is not an issue in that choice does not belong having a venomous snake.

It's about responsibility.

As to that YOU>>>YOU>>>YOU>>> crap, That's not even worth the response.

Try sticking to the subject, or if you can't prove your point, be considerate enough not to go to the gutter for a response.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank, if only I can speak so eloquently without completely letting my emotions get the best of me.
Thanks for your coolheadedness. Although, we both know it won't help.

“but you care that they do not get bit and killed. BS, you will make a ton of money off that animal, and your consience will be clear.”

“I do not believe they care one bit about your safety or mine, and I really hope you dont think they do.”

“but rendering a deadly animal not deadly for profit or ego is not legitimate no matter how much you argue the point.”

Such pessimism!! Maybe some people do care. It does bother me to think of someone (usually w/ a family) lying in the hospital (or a coffin) because they like to “care for” a Venomous species. Anyone should be able to keep a HOT if they want to and it does make me feel bad when someone gets tagged. Especially someone I know!! Fortunately, no one that I have sold a HOT to has been bitten by the Venomous I sold them & I do NOT need to deal w/ the guilt of selling them an animal that has caused the end of their life. I do value human life whether or not I know you. I would like to believe that the people I have dealt with who do the surgeries feel the same. There are plenty of jerks out there but I do get to know the people I buy off of before I deal w/ them – especially w/ such an important issue as Venomoids. I do not perform surgeries & greed is not my motivation for dealing w/ Venomoids either. Think what you want. If you really knew me, you would know my income comes from breeding Ball Pythons not selling a Venomoid here or there. I would like to think I provide an option to someone who may or may not be ready for a Venomous animal & the responsibility that goes along with it. And I am glad you know who I am!! I am not hiding behind a screen name or some initials like most that pass judgment on these forums!!!!!!!!!!! I am not ashamed to speak out for what I believe is right. I do not know you & have no intentions of “attacking” you. I am simply offering my opinion from reading your statements that you could not be serious. I apologize if I have insulted you. Whoever you (or any of you anti-venomoiders) are, one thing is for sure – money is a (unfortunately) a necessity in life. You do not work for free & to expect someone else to perform a service for free is hypocritical & asinine. As I said before, to think the only reason qualified people do the surgery is for profit is pessimistic – you might need to seek counseling for that. Your quality of life might improve…..just an opinion.

P.S. Making money from animals that you collect from the wild is 100% PROFIT = making a ton of money!! Re-selling animals you have purchased for a slight mark-up is not!!

"I like to think I am performing a service..."

In other words, you do make some money off of selling Venomoids...hardly open minded I have to say.

I am not in the business of selling any kind of snake....Who has the less self serving viewpoint???

HMMMMMMMMM???????

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

if you read the post you would see where it says I make a slight mark up. Let me guess, I should not make any money right? Right. Just like you do not work for money. I am sure you have no need for it at all. Let's everyone boycott money & work for free - that will happen. Let me guess, you have never bought a snake either huh? Did the person you were buying snakes off of sell snakes? Of course they did so what is the difference? Unless you collect all of your stock from the wild yourself & that is a whole other topic I'm not geting into here.

Actually this is point I can't argue with. you have the right to make money.

But that is not the issue here.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

The issue here is people should be able to keep or sell Venomoids w/out being the target of hate groups (such as the anti-venomoiders association or whatever they call themselves). If you don't agree w/ the process of devenomization - don't buy a Venomoid. There is no need to send hate-filled KKK style emails or harassing phone calls. Telling people that they are not permitted at a HOT show (as a vendor or customer) is taking it too far. I'm fine w/ people having their own opinions AND disagreeing w/ me but one (or a group) can take it too far.....

I agree. To protest on a forum is one thing. So to is seeking legal remedies. But hate stuff is stupid and useless. calling names and sensless attacks are not going to change anything.

On that note...if I ever get into "Hate" mode over this, you have my permission to stomp my tushie!(lol)

Short of that I hold to my right to politely disagree!

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

as passionate as I am about hots and as much as my emotions get involved, it has never gotten to the point of harrassing someone at home or in an e-mail, hateful, or being violent. It has gotten to the point where I have started contacting the proper authorities and others ( not PETA and the HSUS of course).

Out of curiousity, do you also contact the proper authorities (& others) if your acquaintances keep HOTS illegally?

I would also like to say I have seen people that deserve to have PETA called on them for attempts at devenomizing an animal, cropping dogs tails, etc. I do not condone amatuers trying to save a buck or doing it in the name of making a buck. And I definately do not believe EVERYONE who performs the surgery does not have the safety of the keeper in mind - there are a few people out there doing it for the right reason.

Yes, I do believe there are a FEW Vets that do perform the surgery. However, I still can't get you to understand my point, in the kingsnake.com classifieds, there MAY be one that actually does it legally, and I have yet to get a response from that person, so I'm assuming that he doesn't as well. Time WILL tell.
If you have been around long enough to know who the people are selling the snakes in the classifieds, you would also know that quite a few have or do post in this forum, and ADMITTED that they are not Vets and only do it for the money. To answer your question in the previous post about contacting people about keeping snakes illegally, yes there has been a few. One was an idiot in NYC that was keeping and selling hots without a license, trading car phones and crap for them, and selling snakes that were endangered. It's not my job to police, so I don't make it a point to turn on every person who keeps snakes illegally, because let's face it, it would be about 75% of the people if the truth were to come out, I'm also not THAT much of a d@uchebag.
And as far as the dog ear cropping thing goes, I'm not much of a dog person, but I also don't agree with it. Dogs being spayed and neutered I agree with, simply because it is a benefit to the animal because it may take care of the health problem that may occur in the future, such a certain cancers, so that arguement on some peoples behalf doesn't work.

I believe everyone has a right to own what they want if they do it safely and responsibly. There is a point that someone who has venomous (such as myself) might rather subject them to a surgery then send them to an uncaring and potentially dangerous new home once I have a family (which I am currently expecting). There may be many reasons for this choice. I, however, will keep my hots and do the best I can do to keep them as safely as is humanly possible. But if you want to keep a cobra and I want to keep a ball python who is to say which is the better pet? Not I. Therefore I will look at venomoids only as another "kind" of snake. And if money is made from them so be it. If they are treated unkindly or irresponsibly, it is no different then the uneducated snake owner mistreating their animal. A choice is something we all make, whether in voting, picking your clothes, or picking your "pet". If you don't like venomoids then don't keep them. If you believe the surgery can be done with minimal risk and stress to the animal and are willing to risk its life that is your choice as someone trusted you enough to sell you that animal. So everyone please, we can debate but personal choices are PERSONAL, as in we live in America where we can do as we please within the law. So defend your points, they're valid. Have your opinion, its your right. But leave the personal bashing to the uneducated people who are busy being bitten by venomous, non-venomous, and venomoids and making us look stupid. Go look at the pine/bull/gopher forum where a man "rescued" a woman from a "rattle snake" that was actually a gopher. Its the uneducated people I will worry about first before I turn on someone I may want on my side someday.
Sera
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5.7 ball pythons (7 normal, 3 het albino, 2 het axanthic)
1.2 king snakes (1 chocolate, 2 albino)
1.1 columbian red tail boas
1.1 pueblan milksnakes
2.2 african house snakes
2.1 striped albino gophers
1.0 watersnake
1.2 burmese pythons (1 albino, 2 hets)
2.1 pygmy rattlesnakes
1.1 dumeril's boas
3.3 corns (miami, okatee, snow, caramel, 2 creamsicle)
1.1 jungle corns
0.2 ferrets
0.2 degus
0.1 salcotta tortoise
1.2 mice
1.1 rats
0.0.1 human on the way

If you check my original post, you would see that I have used my real name. I guess its easier to get nasty and assume. Quite frankly, I dont really care who keeps a venomoid. It is a decision based on ego. Think of the animal, not yourself as you said. Me Me ME, as you put it or should I say You You You. If you cant keep it properly, then DO NOT KEEP IT. Plain and simple. I dont expect anyone to do something for nothing. However I also dont expect or see the need for something to be performed needlessly. How exactlty does the animal benifit from this? Still no answer for that. Plenty of keeper have had these types of snakes with no issue at all. Some have not. Reality is, profit is the motivator. You may make money from your Ball Pythons and that is great, as the idea is to profit from what you breed. However profit at the expense of the animals well being is not right. Cobras and Vipers and so on are what they are. Who are you or I to decide that its better to render them harmless. If your animal escapes and kills someone, then you should pay the price for improper care and housing. I am sure it would be treated no different by the authorities than a gun shot. If you can keep it properly, again, DONT KEEP IT.
Here is my name again just in case you dont feel like going back to the original post.
Chris

YOu gotta love how these venomoid threads get so long!
It is a choice, and for whatever side you choose it is your choice. I agree wholeheartedly with the above that there is much more to worry about than attacking one side or other about this debate. Much worse abuse happens every single time a petstore forgets to sell a care book along with it's herps.

Just to show that I"m not biased,... I personally am of the opinion that creating venomoids is a disgrace to the animal.

Now to get on with my point however;
What makes the surgery so dangerous? Non-veterinary hack-jobs... they don't count (see the definition of animal abuse).
In a practice that is familiar with snake anesthesia this procedure falls under the "elective surgery" catagory and carries no more risk than a spay/neuter, ear-crop or declaw. Yes there is no such thing as risk-free anesthesia (for those who didn't know, anesthesia is the riskiest part of an elective surgery), however complications can be 1 in several thousand and don't always end in death. Someone should look up the odds of obtaining an animal via mail or courier without ill effects before worrying about the "risks" of a adenectomy.

Venomiod does not mean harmless. I have been involved in two cases of severe infection from a venomiod gaboon and eastern diamondback. Venom maybe gone but the fangs can and do still carry infection.
Venomiod should be treated the same as venomous when handling.
No animals mouth is sterile.

Jim Harrison