Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I figured they rate an update. Elaphe longissima (or for you radicals, zamenis longissimus)

I'm getting a Swiss Z. Longissima through Gregg next month and was just wondering if yours are the same locale? Also, do you have baby pics to compare to these? Lastly, am I correct in assuming those are '03's?
-----
Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

Gregg had some photos of the hatchlings. My attempts of photos were pretty poor (see below). Yes I believe they are '03s. They're not as striking as some of the asians but I've always wanted to have a pair of longissima. Something about the history of these animals. They shared the Mediterranean with classical civilization and seem like a touchstone to an older world (end of inspirational speech).
John

>They're not as striking as some of the asians but I've always wanted to have a pair of longissima. Something about the history of these animals. They shared the Mediterranean with classical civilization and seem like a touchstone to an older world (end of inspirational speech).

Feel free to elaborate on the inspirational speech anytime you like... I'm getting one for a very similar reason. The Aesculapian is undoubtedly a sacred serpent dating back thousands of years ago. It, along with the Black Neck Spitting Cobra, the Javelin Sand Boa, and arguably the Leopard Rat Snake and Four Lined Rat Snake comprise a very profound link to the mythos of the Levant. In fact it is arguable that until the advent of Christianity the serpent actually was one of the dominant symbols of Salvation, Wisdom, Protection and Healing for much of the region (eg. Ningishzida, Nechushtan, Aesculapius, Erichthonius, Renenutet/Thermuthis/Isis, et. al.) For me this connection is central to my desire to work with this species. So, any further rambling you want to do is fine by me.
-----
Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

Verbosity is my curse. But I'm glad to hear from a kindred spirit. One of the legends I'd heard was that some of the non-contiguous populations in northern Europe were founded by Roman Legions bringing longissima along as part of their religious rituals. In Schulz's monograph he seems to dismiss this theory, but I find it more colorful than the relict population hypothesis. Anyway be sure to put up photos and info as they grow. Hopefully folks will maintain the species in this country this time. The way things are going in Europe, they may be completely off limits in a few years.

John

>One of the legends I'd heard was that some of the non-contiguous populations in northern Europe were founded by Roman Legions bringing longissima along as part of their religious rituals. In Schulz's monograph he seems to dismiss this theory, but I find it more colorful than the relict population hypothesis.

John,
I'm unfamiliar with the Schulz piece, could you give me a citation that I can look up? I was under the impression that most people believed that the range of the Aesculapian was due to Roman occupation and the spread of the cult of Asklepios. If, however, there is another argument I'd like to know so I don't sound like a complete idiot when I spout off that my snake (Swiss Locale) is almost certainly a direct (albeit distant) decendant of a temple serpent used in the healing rites of Asklepios.
On another note: If it is true that all the Z. Longissimus' in more Northern parts of Europe are the products of Roman importation to temples then these decendants are the Serpentine equivalent of the Merovingian line ("Holy Blood, Holy Grail" stuff)! Fun to think about anyway.
-----
Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

Ron:
I highly recommend Klaus-Dieter Schulz's "A Monograph of the Colubrid Snakes of the Genus Elaphe Fitzinger." It's a veritable bible for ratsnake lovers.

Anyway, although in his Chapter "Ratsnakes and Man", Schulz repeats the Roman Legion story, in the Species Account for longissima and in the chapter called "Paleoherpetological Aspects" he states that fossil evidence points to the northern european locales being relicts of a formerly larger distribution.

But I admit that I much prefer the legionary origin. It's much more fun. Ave imperator, we who are about to be thawed and eaten salute you!
John

I'll get a copy of the Schultz from the library but I'm now interested... The fossil record shows Z. Longissima in Switzerland, Germany, et. al. before the Common Era? What a bummer... I guess I now have to rely on strictly magical thinking when justifying asking people to genuflect before Ningishzida (the name of my coming Aesculapian) as the true and holy representative of the serpent god on Earth ;/ Oh, well... So much for science backing up my faith based reasoning
-----
Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

it's good exercise. He has some other info that's interesting. There was a german nobleman who transplanted a colony to another area of Germany in the mid 1800's. It survived to at least the 1940's but is missing now. Also a locale in Denmark went extinct at the beginning of the twentieth century. So conditions for expansion in northern Europe are no longer hospitable for this snake.

n/m
-----
Mark

NT

I like the stripes. How large are they now? I have some Russian longissima that I hope to breed in '05, and I would like to have some other locales. --Scott

I'd love to see those russian longissima. When you've got some photos please put them up here.
Best regards
John

Here is an old shot of one when they were about a year old. I'll to get some recent photos soon.

That is a great looking beast. Can't wait to see what yours look like in another year or two. I'm glad to see there are several different locales showing up in the US now. We need to have some of the more exotic ratsnakes well represented here. Exotics come and go in waves. So the more they bring in, the better the chance some will be established in the hobby.
Best regards
John