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Veiled Chameleon... I really need help on this one...(long)

severa Oct 03, 2004 11:01 PM

Last Tuesday I recieved a call from the local pet store saying that a lady came by and dropped off her sick veiled chameleon. She told the store attendants that it had taken off eating for the past few months and she did not want to see it die (I guess a vet never crossed her mind). So the pet store called me up as they have done in the past when they get sick stuff in (mostly leopards geckos and other aboreal lizards) to see if I can get them back on their feet. I was very hesitant with the veiled as I haven't had a chameleon in many years.
Anyhow, I get to the store and was shown to the back room where there was a 20 long tank with a screen mesh top. Inside was a maze of quarter inch nylon rope suctioned to the side of the tank, repti-bark, neon fake plants, a large water dish with a air pump and stone running to it, 25 crickets running about, and finally, a Male veiled with a 4.5 inch snout/vent length laying on his side gripping his front legs with his back. Very little feces in the cage.

THE CHAMELEON: Coloration is not bad, dull on the tail but still very beautiful. Has some scabs on both front legs due to grabbing them with his back legs. Top of crest is rubbed but not infected, probably due to rubbing on screen (by the way, the tank like I said before is a 20 long and was in original orientation giving less than 12 inches high to climb). His strength was not totally bad, he was able to grip but not enough to climb. No swollen joints. Eyes weren't sunk in and no bones were showing in the base of the tail. He was not dehydrated ( surprisingly!) Seems underweight and very weak. Not very defensive either. He's very alert.I watched for shaking movement in his slow strides and cannot detect any apparent shaking. THE Biggest issue is, when he will walk for a while fall over, and not be able to get back up! He lays on his side and immediately grabs his back legs with his front.

OK, brought him home, put him in a screen cage that is 20 inches high, 12 inches wide and about 24 inches long. Got a basking spot in there that does not exceed 91 degrees and I have a cool side on opposite end.Got a UVB flourescent in there too. Structures are not set up high either for when he falls. Bubbler dish is set up ( figured if it has been working before).Daily mistings. Paper towel bottom was put in for feces analysis.
He was at first not very interested in food.
The next day I took him outside to get 100% sun and while on the limb (not a very high one either) I held a cricket with a tweezer and he just looked at it, then opened his mouth, so I gave it to him followed by 4 more dusted in rep-cal. He is not using his tongue, he merely opens his mouth and I place it in, then he of course does the rest.
Thursday, He was not interested in crickets at all and would not drink.His eyes looked sunken. Spent the whole day on his side in the "fetal" position. I syringe fed him a tastey concoction of gerber apricot food with herptivite.
By friday, strength has had a major improvement. He fell over while walking and we watched him right himself. Not interested in meal worms or crix, gave his apricot gerber, rep-cal, and small piece of romane.
Saturday, I offored a small piky with rump dipped in rep-cal and he took it( once again, opened his mouth and I just layed it in there). He was not hesitant to eat it at all!

Today....still can not hold long on perches, still in "fetal" position. Strength has improved tremendously! Color is better. Tongue is still not being used and is real light pink almost white. Fed him gerber turkey/apricot mix with rep-cal. He took water from the syringe today as I dripped it onto his front lips. In the past, he rejected this technique. I know he moves around a bit because he will position himself under the lamp and then later will be found away from the spot.

I do see improvement, hands down. But this whole thing about him not able to hold long to a perch is so frustrating and I am confused.
What I think is this. He is not accustomed to climbing high because he was in the 20 long for god knows how long. I think his muscles are possibly not developed well. There may also be early stages of MDB involved, still unsure. I am trying to reinforce his diet with the rep-cal and herptivite and I am still trying to find some Miner-al (sp?). I know the previous owner used Herpcare cricket dust by Mardel because there was a half used bottle used in the "bag o' stuff" that came with him. I feel he is making progress but I still don't 100% know if a chameleons can succumb to psychological issues if they are brought up in a cage that they out grow.And if so, can they be broken out of it. My herp vet just recently moved to colorado. The soonest I can get him to a vet is in a week and I still have to find a vet to treat him.

Any ideas you have, please feel free to blast away. Escpecially if any of you are in the atlanta area and know a good "herp" vet. If you think I am doing something that I should not, please inform me, but I please ask that you do it in a professional manner. In the past, some people have become too opinionated in a rude/obnoxious way and I don't deserve that. My turn around for rehabilitation is over 75% but I will be the first to admit that I don't know everything and that is why I am here!
Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for reading this and any additional info you may have. I will respond to any questions and I will try to post a pic tomorrow ( I am too tired right now).
Thanks again!
Severa
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2.3 leopards( 2 tremper albinos,1 high yellow, 2 tang)1.0 African fattail,0.1 pink toe tarantula,1.0 mexican red knee tarantula,1.0 albino sonoran gopher,1 eastern painted turtles,0.1 sun conure,55 gallon freshwater tank, and one five gallon brackish tank with a flounder, and two chihuahuas......and thats all!
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Replies (5)

FisherCham20 Oct 04, 2004 08:21 AM

All I have for you is words of encouragement. Sounds like you're doing a wonderful job there. I'm by no means an expert but as long as he's eating and drinking, I think he has a good chance at a great life.

lele Oct 04, 2004 10:20 AM

Severa,

Sounds like you have taken on quite a challenge and that you are making some real progress. It always amazes me how people who live with animals can let their state get so bad. I guess grateful though that she did bring him to a store and that the store has this relationship with you! OK, enough opinion and praise! LOL!

I cannot give you specific info as I have never rehabbed a herp but I can give you a link for Miner-al (the folks who make it, it is also sold readily via web):
www.miner-all.net/STFMINER-ALL.htm

here are some vet/society/rescue sites in GA. this first one is neat b/c it is annotated with actual experiences from herp keepers.
www.herpvetconnection.com/georgia.shtml

vets in GA
www.anapsid.org/vets/georgia.html

societies/rescue
www.anapsid.org/societies/georgia.html

I can also offer a suggestion...maybe if you put a balled up cloth or piece of material (not a terry towel or anything with "loops" where his toes could get stuck) for him to grasp onto. This way he will stop grasping his own legs and it will help if he falls over, too.

Carlton (on this forum) has had extensive experience with rescuing herps and hopefully he will reply to you. Chris Anderson and Dr. Ivan Alfonse are good contacts and they can be found here occasionally, too.

I am sorry I cannot do more for you but at least this may help finding a vet and other resources.

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (both MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog (for summer)
0.5 Mad. Hissers (for summer - all girls, no little ones, whew!)

Carlton Oct 04, 2004 05:57 PM

I think you are doing all the right things for now. It took quite a while for the poor guy to get in this condition and it will take a while (probably longer) for him to recover. That he's eating and drinking is GREAT! If he'll eat insects directly I would not add lots of odd supplements through forcefeeding. A good gutloaded insect is more natural for his system. Don't overdo the pinkies. They are high in fat and calcium deficient unless dusted. Also a very large meal to digest. Lots of small foods (with more surface area to absorb supplements) will be more nutritious and easy to process. I agree with the fabric idea. It might encourage him to try walking and perching more without the "fear" of falling. Not sure about the fetal position leg grabbing thing. It could be some type of muscle/tendon damage from deficiencies or it could be behavioral "habit". I suspect it will stop if the cham is able to recover from his nutritional problems. If the nutritional damage is permanent he may not show any improvement. BUT, it may take some weeks to know. Basking sessions outdoors whenever you can will really help too. Full sun is a big metabolic stimulator and being outdoors will also give a bit of "good" stress (interest in things around him, stuff to watch, responding to sun, shade, temp, and wind). If it gets chilly you can still put him in a sheltered spot and do some good. Wrap a towel around a birdcage in a wind protected spot along a house wall. Good luck!

severa Oct 04, 2004 11:56 PM

Just wanted to start by saying thank you to all of you, i appreciate the feed back. I was able to touch base here at home early today, read the posts, put a small half of a pillow case in (snagless) and it works well as long as he is on it. He crimps down on the folds. But I caught him earlier off the case and grabbing his front again. I was not able to give him much sun today but he was under the flourescent. Tomorrow he will get more sun, at least 4 hours. Didn't want crickets tonight, so he ate turkey/ multivitamins. I am not going to make it a habit of feeding pinkys as I know too much is not healthy at all. I fed him that one because it was a small one(not any bigger than a full sized cricket) that would have been rejected from a western hognose (not to worry, the pinky was never put into the hog cage to risk spreading of germs from hog to chameleon).
I know I said i was going to post pics but I will have to do it tomorrow because I need batteries for the camera.
Also, I still see no sign of defecation. It will be a week tomorrow that I have had him and I have logged down that he has had much to eat. He stays close to the basking spot and I would have thought that all that was fed would have began to pass. What are yours thoughts on this?
Movement is fine today. He seems to stay up longer without rolling off to the side. Color seems to be a little brighter but tail still seems a little dull. But no huge improvements.Thanks again yall, I really appreciate it and when I post tomorrow, I will start a new thread.
Thanks again,
Severa
-----
2.3 leopards( 2 tremper albinos,1 high yellow, 2 tang)1.0 African fattail,0.1 pink toe tarantula,1.0 mexican red knee tarantula,1.0 albino sonoran gopher,1 eastern painted turtles,0.1 sun conure,55 gallon freshwater tank, and one five gallon brackish tank with a flounder, and two chihuahuas......and thats all!

Carlton Oct 05, 2004 12:48 PM

As you don't know how much or if anything was fed for some time before you got him his intestine may be fairly empty. Chams can go quite a few days between poops if they were not eating or drinking for a while. If you don't feel any hard masses in his abdomen he may be fine. If he's getting soft food and lots of liquids it may be OK for now. Getting out in full sun will tend to stimulate him too.

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