Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, Im new to this board and looking for some guidance. I Just
rescued a baby beardie from a pet shop. They were just gonna throw
him in the garbage still alive if you can believe that (and you
probably can if youve ever dealt with any of the chain stores), so
they gave him to me for free as long as I promised not to complain
if "he kicks it". I'm far from a newbie in exotics or
rehabilitation, but I'm not particularly familiar with the species.
Heres the specs.

approx 2" SVL
Extremely dehydrated
Barely responsive
Emaciated
No apparent signs of MBD

Enclosure is a open top tupperware with a procelain rock fixture (not
hot rock). A reptile night lamp provides heat and a UVB lamp
provides light during the day. Leafy Greens and water are provided
but so far have not been touched.

Day 1
-Spent 24 hours rehydrating with an eyedropper filled with half
gatorade half water
-No movement. Breathing ok. Gums are white
-tongue responds to water - drinking reflex
-Eyes stay closed unless he is moved.

Day 2
-continue with hydration, also gave him a little bit of yogurt with
live cultures.
-minimal movement (responds to stimulus, but only slightly)
-Eyes closed. White gums

Day 3
-Began feeding a mixture of kitten food (wet), mixed veggie baby
food, water, gatorade.
-Also administered 2 drops orally of a liquid D3 vitamin/electrolizer
-Eyes open for feeding,
-shows ability to resist eyedropper
-White Gums, head down

Day 4
-Continued with cat food mixture/electrolizer
-First defecation stools somewhat soft, but probably due to excessive
water/soft food matter
-showing more energy, eyes still closed, head down
-Body seems to be fleshing out a bit

Day 5
-Continued with cat food mixture/electrolizer
-administered collard greens blended in with mustard greens and water
through eye dropper...didnt go over well with him, he spit most of it
out.
-Energy seems increased. Head up

Day 6
-Body is filling out, though back legs and hips still look thin
-Continued provding all food/lighting/heating measures
-able to move around freely
-eyes still closed even when moving
-opens eyes when fed, or when moved suddenly
-keeps head up, able to carry his body when he moves (doesnt drag his
belly)

That brings us up to speed. Hes doing increasingly better each day,
no signs of paralysis or nerve damage, but he still shows no interest
in eating/drinking on his own, and he keeps his eyes closed and rests
a whole lot more than I would expect at this point. I've ruled out
impaction as he is able to pass his bowels, and he has no apparent
external injuries that would indicate internal damage. Are his gums
supposed to be white? In most other animals Ive dealt with that is a
sign of dehydration, but I've been hydrating him more than
sufficiently. I havent had the time or resources to get a parasite
stool sample done at the vet, and I was wondering if by the sounds of
his behavior if anything indicates parasites? I've read a bit on
coccidia or whatever and it says symptoms are listlessness and droopy
eyes, but I think those could also be symptoms of his severe state.

I realize the optimal thing to do would be to get him to a vet but Im
a grad student and funds are limited and this wasnt something I
expected to be doing so I'm just trying to make do with the best that
I can. Does anyone have any reviews on the Parazap product? Could it
be considered better than nothing? or does it run the risk of
immunizing parasites? Does anyone have any suggested methods of
rehabilitation that I am not doing yet? Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated

Thanks in adavnce

Deus X Machina lIIuminati@yahoo.com
and the baby bearded
(he doesnt get a name till I know he
is gonna make it)

It seems you are doing everything you can for him.

If you don't have the resources for a vet trip, then go to a pet store like Petco or Petsmart and pick up a box of Flukers Reptile Medicine, it will run you about $10 but it is well worth it.

It helps sick animals get better fast, it's powdered forumla contains vitamins and nutrients along with a little bit of medication that will help the bearded to get better. I use it on my animals whenever they get sick looking and act strange and none of them have died yet.

The Flukers reptile medicine comes in 3 types, Herbivore, Carnivore/Insectivore and Omnivore.

If they don't have omnivore the 2nd best is carnivore/insectivore.

I hope this helps and I hope the little fella gets better fast.
-----
GUY: You know I have a tendency to grow on people.
GAL: Yeah, so does fungus.

"Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they're eating sandwiches."

I'm not sure which product to use against Parasites though I'm sure there are people who can help.
It's likely he has parasites, Gums are supposed to be a Yellow, often rather bright in well kept specimens.
To me, the white gums would be a sign of blood loss or extreme illness.. I don't think he's still so ill to have white gums normally.. but a fecal exam is highly reccomended.. I only skimmed your topic but when I get back from school and picking up my new desert tort I'll check back.. You seem to know exactly what you're doing, So I wish you the best of luck keep us informed!
-----
2.4.1 Leos
1.1.13(eggs) Beardie
1.0 Burm
0.1 Common Boa
1.0 Bp (Turns out, it's a 2nd burmese)

Thanks to all who replied in assistance, but i think he is gone. He has been unresponsive for 2 hours now. It was strange he was doing so well and then this morning he started gaping abnormally, and within 10 minutes he was gone. He hasnt gone stiff, and I cant tell if I am still seeing breathing, or if im just seeing gas building up and being released. In any event I'm going to continue to treat him as living until I have definitive proof otherwise.

Thanks again everyone. I'm claiming a moral victory on this one, knowing that he died fully fleshed out and cared for rather than as the twisted agonized skeleton of a creature he was when I found him.

DeusXMachina
and
Phoenix
(I decided he needs a name to have aproper funeral)

That is so sad I am glad that you were able to give him some comfort before he passed.

Honey you were his ANGEL!! God bless you for being with him and giving it your best to save him!

Such a shame, but hey, you should claim that victory, you send him off FEELIN LOVED !

Now hes in the BEST HANDS possible, all healed and happy!

Seems he got more in the last few days with you than maybe in his lifetime, Thats a GOOD thing!

Take care, and its VERY NICE to have you with us!
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____
----
Eve / PHEve

I'm sorry. I know how much pet loss can hurt.

When my brother's chameleon was sick it took him about 4 hrs to die. I sat holding him on my chest watching him gasp for air. There was nothing we could do, we had already taken it to the vet.

I'm glad you decided to give him/her a name, even though you might not get to use it much longer, it still will let the little guy/gal know that they were loved greatly even though you spent little time together.

May Angels Lead You In Phoenix.
-----
GUY: You know I have a tendency to grow on people.
GAL: Yeah, so does fungus.

"Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they're eating sandwiches."

if you flop him upside down and he doesn't turn over he's probably dead.... if he's even very close to death, they almost always flop back over. Sounds like you did everything right to try and revive him.

I use a mixture of vegetable/chicken baby food and pedialyte along with calicum w/D3 & multi vits mixed in. That's worked very well for me. If he does show a little life by flopping back over, maybe try the baby food/pedialyte mix. Sorry for your loss if he/she's gone.

Thanks for all the help everyone. Yeah I did flip him over with now response, and I kept him warm until rigor mortis set in just to be sure, then I took him up north to where my First Iguana was buried - it seemed a fitting place.

Thanks to all who have helped and responded

DeusXMachina

I'm sorry you lost the lil guy.

This just goes to show that Pet Stores should no longer carry animals they are not able to take proper care of.
-----
GUY: You know I have a tendency to grow on people.
GAL: Yeah, so does fungus.

"Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they're eating sandwiches."

and had hopes you could pull him through.

With the white gums and so run down, I really do think he has worms and was bleeding internally........ it was great you tried to save him, but that is a hard one to come back from, even with excellent handfeeding and loving care.

Just a note of warning, we thought we had lost a lizard once, I could see no indication of breathing or life and put it in a box to bury outside the next day, when I opened the box, there was the baby looking a me with it's head up!!

Since then we have learned to wait until the animal is for lack of a better word... stiff. Reptile can do into such deep sleep cycles there is no sign of life.

For the record.. I do not breed and lose babies, we take in ones from the humane society, red cross, vet referrals and pet stores that they are losing. Some do survive and we place them in good homes when they are stable or if it is apparent that the owners really care about them, just did not know better, we teach them proper care... but most babies to that point will not make it.
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www.reptilerooms.com

I am sorry, for you and for the dragon. You did the best you could do in a terrible situation and I know how it hurts. You gave your dragon the best care you could and you are obviously conscientious, compassionate and knowledgeable.

Best, and much sympathy,
michele

P.S. Not trying to give you false hope, but I too encourage you to wait until stiffness sets into the body before burying him or her. Horrible thought, I know, but I too once thought I had a dead dragon, for about two hours, and she is still alive.

That's too bad, you did your best.. it's great to see that kind of action, rare in some people now adays.. I believe many can envy the bearded in your care some day in the future.
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2.4.1 Leos
1.1.13(eggs) Beardie
2.0 Burm
0.1 Common Boa
0.0.1 Sand Fish
0.2 Desert Tortoise hatchlings
Wish for: Candoia Sp, Frilled D, BTS