Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
https://www.crepnw.com/
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

Interesting. Seems like the last time I was visiting this site 3 years ago...

Jaffo Oct 05, 2004 06:40 PM

... the most popular topic was venomoids then, too. What's with you people? LOL.

Doesn't anyone talk about venomous snakes anymore? Has anything changed around here since I've been gone?

Look. There will always be a small portion of the hobby associated with venomoids as a more controversial, ethically alienated, and somewhat shunned faction. It is inevidable considering the popularity of venomous species in the private sector, and the diversity of the interested parties. Ethically acceptable or not, it's here, and the private ownership of all venomous snakes will be at risk before venomoids will be for two reasons.

#1, in the private sector within the general population, most non herpers do not value our current privilage of keeping venomous snakes in our homes. However, if you told them that your snakes were surgically altered, and that they are 'incapable' of delivering venom, a non-herper will undoubtably have less of a problem with it. They don't care about the snakes. They care about the risk factor, based on an uneducated opinion. Any other assumption to the contrary would be, I believe, entirely idealistic.

#2, All snakes in captivity are dead snakes to nature. The mere fact that we keep them in cages indicates a selfish desire to entertain ourselves with the 'natural' behavior of these species within a confined, controlled environment. We hold this privilage of ours at a higher regard than what the actual purpose of these snakes calls for. We do not 'deserve' to keep snakes in cages, nor is that where they belong. So naturally speaking, how are unaltered captive snakes any ethically or naturally more acceptable than captive snakes that have their glands removed, ducts stapled, or tails cropped? This is, of course, an example of the possible perspective of a relative outsider, which I am not. I have my own position as a keeper my self, and I often grapple a bit with the importance I place on my ability to keep snakes in cages as opposed to the clean enjoyment I get from observing species in their natural environment.

I just find it petty at this point to dedicate this much Venomous Forum space to this subject... probably because I wasted so much of it on the same subject three years ago. My perspective evolved in some ways during that period, as I learned more about things and allowed my position to form. So maybe that's what y'all need. Fine... I won't be too hard on ya.

But don't forget what's really important, and what the hobby is really about... the two of which are not necessarily related. The biggest crime against the venomous species of the world is not venomoid makers. It's destruction of habitat and the commercialization of snakes as pets (not commercial collecting)-- both of which far devaluize these species before the venomoiders ever get to them. In my opinion, by the time those glands are removed, it's a moot point.

What happens within this hobby is also natural, within our own species. A far higher percentage of folks involved with this hobby of keeping venomous snakes will shun the idea of venomoids for obvious reasons. I'm certainly comfortable with that. However, I will suggest we let the chips fall where they may, because if you spend enough time fighting for laws which prohibit the creation and sale of venomoids, not only will your enjoyment of your own version of the hobby suffer because your passion becomes displaced, but you just might have succeeded in loosing your privilage of owning unaltered charges as well. Just watch.

Jaffo

Replies (11)

bachman Oct 05, 2004 08:30 PM

I too took a couple year break, and no, it hasn't changed one bit. Guess it's time for me to take another break.

Venomoids,venomoids,venomoids, who really cares? It's like beating a dead horse.
-----
Chad Bachman

bachman Oct 05, 2004 08:33 PM

.
-----
Chad Bachman

Venom17 Oct 05, 2004 09:49 PM

I couldnt agree anymore Chad. Why do we let it bother us? Let the voiders do their thing and we need to stop harping and focusing on it. This is a venomous fourm, not a forum to flame each other and to beat the dead horse of venomoids. Lets all get back to the snakes we come to know and love and actually enjoy them.

Joe

Jeremy G Oct 06, 2004 12:45 PM

(In his cheeseist Tapac impersonation). How ya been bro? Its been way to long since youve graced us with your presence. As you may have guessed, most of the old crew is MIA (includeing myself until just very recently). However, it seems since you have returned a few have chimed in from the shadows. Hopefully a sign of things to come (the overall caliber of posters hasnt been the same for quite sometime).

So how is AZ treating ya? Still molesting all of those poor crots? I hope you finnaly learned that snakes and dildos dont mix!!! :-D

Well my freind its great to have you back!

Peace,
J

P.S Are ya still keeping Pituophis?

P.P.S No, I still dont use spell check:-D

"Nobody wants anything ive got which is fine cause their made of everything im not!"

Jeremy G Oct 06, 2004 12:52 PM

Ment Tupac. Doah!

DKT Oct 07, 2004 05:24 PM

You should atleast use spellcheck on names...lol. Perhaps namecheck.
How ya been little brother?

Don

Jeremy G Oct 14, 2004 10:05 AM

Don!~!!!!

How are ya bro? I couldnt use spell check man. Mispelling is my trade mark:-D

Everythings good over here, how bout you?

Take care man,
J

DKT Oct 14, 2004 05:26 PM

Not bad my brotha. Drop by "my" neighborhood for a visit why don'cha.
Peace

Don
my neighborhood

Jaffo Oct 06, 2004 02:00 PM

Yeah man... still in AZ. But haven't gotten out much in the last couple years. I try to molest animals as much as possible... just don't have access to the crotes as of late. That will change though. I still have pines... a couple northerns and a big lodingii.

Good to see ya brotha. I'll see if I can get under some skin here for a while. It'd be nice to see some old-school mfers in here a bit more.. I see BGF, Longhurst, Eipper, Bachman, and even that Greg Bordelin guy is still around, along with my buddy Kris (AZAtrox). Maybe we can have a revival. Why the hell do all the new guys have silly names? Trying to out-silly 'jaffo'? LOL.

Jaf

DKT Oct 07, 2004 05:22 PM

Seems I've seen your milky white mug much more recently. LOL! How's thangs Jaf? You cornered a nice fat cerberus for me yet?
Hope to make it down To Bill P.s and perhaps your way around midwinter.

Don

Jaffo Oct 08, 2004 02:13 PM

Well, since I've been on this forum, it's been 3 years at least.

No man, no cerb for you yet. I'm sure I'll come across one at some point...

Doin' well, thanks. You guys just let me know what the plan is, n' shiznizzle.

Jaf

Site Tools