Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is my MO locale black rat pair that Doorgunner and TerryP wanted to see. They finally have shed and are looking good.

Here is the male, he has lots of red on his sides and belly and is very docile and easy going.

The flash made his pattern more discernable than it really is. He is getting darker with every shed, but still retaining the red between the scales.

Here is the female. She doesnt have near as much red as the male, but she has some. Not nearly as docile as the male and just now getting to where she doesnt bite every time I pull her out of her enclosre. (just every other time!! LOL)

She has alot more white in her coloration, where the male has red.
Another shot, a close up.

Hope you guys enjoyed them, and I will take some more as they get darker. I would guess they were maybe 2 years old this summer. Both probably close to 3' in length.

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

>>This is my MO locale black rat pair that Doorgunner and TerryP wanted to see. They finally have shed and are looking good.
>>
>> Here is the male, he has lots of red on his sides and belly and is very docile and easy going.
>>
>>The flash made his pattern more discernable than it really is. He is getting darker with every shed, but still retaining the red between the scales.
>>
>>
>>Here is the female. She doesnt have near as much red as the male, but she has some. Not nearly as docile as the male and just now getting to where she doesnt bite every time I pull her out of her enclosre. (just every other time!! LOL)
>>
>>She has alot more white in her coloration, where the male has red.
>>Another shot, a close up.
>>
>>
>> Hope you guys enjoyed them, and I will take some more as they get darker. I would guess they were maybe 2 years old this summer. Both probably close to 3' in length.
>>
>>-----
>>
>>
>>
>>RATS
>>1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
>>1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
>>1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
>>1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
>>1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
>>0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
>>1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
>>1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
>>
>>RACERS
>>1.0 Eastern Yellow Belly racer "Nightcrawler" (MO locale)
>>
>>KINGS
>>1.1 California king snake "Bandit and Moonstar" (Coastal phase)
>>1.0 Prairie king snake "Bishop" (KY locale)
>>0.1 Black king snake "Domino" (KY locale)
>>1.0 Desert Kingsnake "Gambit"
>>
>>MILKS
>>0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
>>0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
>> Good luck and Happy Herping
>>Brian

>>>>This is my MO locale black rat pair that Doorgunner and TerryP wanted to see. They finally have shed and are looking good.
>>>>
>>>> Here is the male, he has lots of red on his sides and belly and is very docile and easy going.
>>>>
>>>>The flash made his pattern more discernable than it really is. He is getting darker with every shed, but still retaining the red between the scales.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here is the female. She doesnt have near as much red as the male, but she has some. Not nearly as docile as the male and just now getting to where she doesnt bite every time I pull her out of her enclosre. (just every other time!! LOL)
>>>>
>>>>She has alot more white in her coloration, where the male has red.
>>>>Another shot, a close up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope you guys enjoyed them, and I will take some more as they get darker. I would guess they were maybe 2 years old this summer. Both probably close to 3' in length.
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>RATS
>>>>1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
>>>>1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
>>>>1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
>>>>1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
>>>>1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
>>>>0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
>>>>1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
>>>>1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
>>>>
>>>>RACERS
>>>>1.0 Eastern Yellow Belly racer "Nightcrawler" (MO locale)
>>>>
>>>>KINGS
>>>>1.1 California king snake "Bandit and Moonstar" (Coastal phase)
>>>>1.0 Prairie king snake "Bishop" (KY locale)
>>>>0.1 Black king snake "Domino" (KY locale)
>>>>1.0 Desert Kingsnake "Gambit"
>>>>
>>>>MILKS
>>>>0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
>>>>0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
>>>> Good luck and Happy Herping
>>>>Brian
-----

RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Hope He Keeps some of that red. Looks great. We never see that phase down here.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I think he probably will, thats pretty much the average coloration from that part of MO. I have seen them with even more red than this!! So maybe if I breed them later on, they will throw some babies with lots of red. They are from the same spot so they are a locale pair.

>>Hope He Keeps some of that red. Looks great. We never see that phase down here.
>>
>>Frank
>>-----
>>"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
-----

RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Looking good Brian. Thanks for posting some pics. Did you mention "maybe" when discussing breeding them? LOL. Black rat snakes do vary more than I would think over their range. I think there was a discussion or two on their color phases. Are the real black phase a melanistic black rat snake? Since black works for them in their habitat and range, then melanistic black rat snakes would fare real well. Some populations may be real black due to the altitude they inhabit and some may possibly be melanistic populations in other areas. Black pine snakes, as a comparison, are really melanistic pine snakes.

Terry Parks

You know Terry, I dont know about the melanistic theory. The black rats in SE Missouri are jet black. The rat snakes here in this part of KY are not, although there is some speculation that the black rats here are actually an intergrade of the obsoleta/spiloides. There is a small spiloides overlap in MO in the extreme SE of the bootheel. Here the black rats are very similar to the black rats here in KY. In the rest of MO where there is no overlap, the black rats are jet black. The black rats in the eastern sea board states are also jet black, and there are no spiloides there either. Look at the black rats in IN, OH, and IL, all jet black. No spiloides range overlap there either! So I really believe the theory to hold some validity.

The black rat snakes in the ranges where they are black, are still really variable as far as coloration. I have seen some that are jet black, but have white patches, or lots of red, and even some that have small amounts of tan and browns. But all tend to be heavily black overtoned.

Now the snakes here in KY and TN are the typical brown, greyish coloration variants that hold more yellows, browns and greys vs. black coloration. Even the "pale" variant or the high yellows.

Im pretty interested in this theory/speculation, and would appreciate any thoughts on the subject. Not to mention would be nice to hear what a fellow rat snake herper thinks about it.
Chat at ya later
-----

RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian