Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is she home from the vet? Is she doing OK?
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (both MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog (for summer)
0.5 Mad. Hissers (for summer - all girls, no little ones, whew!)

I brought her home last night. Man was she pissed. I guess I would be too if I just had all of my sexual organs removed. Anyway, the vet said that the surgery was definately life saving as the eggs never even detached from her ovaries. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, it's ben a long couple of days. She is still pretty weak and is still hanging out at the bottom of her plants. She gapes and hisses at me and is very uninterested in eating. This has me worried a bit, but I've had operations before and felt pretty weak and cranky myself. I guess only time will tell. I feel really badly for her. She has this big nasty stiched up scar along the left side of her body. Frankly, she has me wondering if I did the right thing. I say this because, although I obviously care alot about her life, I wonder if I'm doing her a disservice by letting her live her life without the prospect of reproducing. I know this is a matter of ethics or faith or whatever and that there will be a million different opinions on this, but honestly, what does an animal like a captive female chameleon have in life besides being able to expand her species' gene pool? Maybe, we just have no business keeping these delicate, beautiful creatures in captivity. I'm past caring about the money issue. I can make more money. I just hope I can make her have a reason to "enjoy" life after this. Sorry for sounding so morbid, but after seeing her in pain, I don't know what to think. Hopefully, she'll make a full recover and someone will tell mesomething to get me back to earth. Thanks for everything, Lele. You have been a tremendous suppurt, both informationally and emotionally. I truly thank you. - Josh

Im glad she went through the surgery well! And look on the bright side, if she has enough energy to be pissed at you she will probably be fine hehe. Surgery is never much fun :-/ As for the not being able to reproduce, Maybe its a good thing she cant anymore, causing no more chances of losing her to egg binding and all the other nasty stuff that can come with gravid females? Maybe im wrong but I would have felt better knowing that. Congrats on getting her home safe and sound!

Erin
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1:0 Veileds (Gene, RIP Aurora)
1:1 Albino Clawed Frogs (Phedre and Jos)
?? Fire belly toad (Harold)
Various cats and dogs

Thank you. You're right when you said I should be happy that we dont have to worry about losing her to egg binding anymore. I know I should take more comfort in that. I dont know if chams think in terms of "meaningness of life", (in fact, they probably don't), I just can't shake the feeling that I have taken away the thing that gives her purpose in captivity. Granted, the vet said that she would have never laid those eggs on her own anyway, but I still feel badly. I'm sure being sterile is better than a slow death, though. I dont mean to sound like I wish my cham dies, not by any stretch, i guess I'm just being phiosophical after seeing her in obvious pain post-operation. Anyway, thanks again for the kind words.

I know how you feel, EXACTLY. My female panther had a c-section about a year ago. It was horrible. The eggs were still in her tubes and wouldn't have come out on their own... just keep growing and growing until she burst I guess. I was glad to get them out... Until I saw her at the vets still sedated and white with sunken eyes. She woke up the next day and came home. I kept her in a smaller tank than the cage she was normally in. I was worried she would hurt herself, or get too cold. I kept the temps up at 95 to bask, and 80 in the rest, with no heat at night. It took her a while to start eating on her own. I gave her c/v cat food (has TONS of calories good for rescues and putting weight on after surgery) for 4 or 5 days mixed with water and electrolytes. After that she got sweet potato baby food mixed with water and electrolytes..
I know how you felt about keeping her alive. I cried more than I ever thought I would over anything (let alone a lizard, meaning before I got a cham I didn't realize how attached I'd become). It took her a good few months to get "back to normal".
BUT, now, a year later, she is doing really well. She gets her bright happy colours, and seems very happy. The only problems I had longterm were her not eating and drinking well, which started long before surgery when she first became gravid. Looking back I am very glad that I kept her alive, and I know that she is happy to be here. She is well cared for, and even if she lifespan ends up being shorter than it would have been, I'm glad to have her for extra time. Give her time. And believe me, if she decides that she no longer wants to be here, you will know. Animals make it very clear to us when it is their time to go... Hang in there. If you need any advice/someone to talk to just let me know
~Lindsay
Chimbakka@hotmail.com

Hi Josh (nice to "meet" you

I am a little late getting to the forum today. I am so glad to hear she is doing well. I am glad I was helpful and supportive. As I told you the folks here were so great to me last year so I am glad when I can give a little back I think Lindsay’s experience will be helpful to you, too

I do agree that not having to worry about egg binding will be a relief to you both. I have no plans to breed Luna so sometimes I wish I could just bring her in for a hysterectomy but it is certainly not worth the risk and she has laid both clutches w/o problems.

As for keeping...I ruminate about this often. I had three anoles that I sent to my Mom in FL so she could set them free. I was going to do the same with my geckos but one got loose this winter and the other the DAY BEFORE I WAS SENDING HER!! I hope that she may show up with the cold weather and this room (office/herp room) is the warmest. I am sure she found loose crix but not sure about water.

Anyway, I am thinking about a beardie or blue tongue skink and then I wonder do I really want to "keep" another "wild" animal. There are so many ways to look at both sides and I vacillate like crazy! The circumstances surrounding acquiring the animal, intentions to breed or not - so much to think about. I hear ya!

The thread that Eric just started about the lack of info at shows is frustrating, too. I find shows to be rather depressing and I mainly go for supplies.

Sorry for length...;-/

Luna sends Lola little cham hugs and kisses

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (both MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog (for summer)
0.5 Mad. Hissers (for summer - all girls, no little ones, whew!)

Thanks again, everyone for the support. It means alot. Lele, pardon my manners. I can't believe I never "introduced" myself! haha. Sorry to hear about your missing geckos, I hope they turn up. After reading Lindsey's post, I called my vet to see if he thought the cat food thing was a good idea for my cham, as she hasnt eaten since she got home. The response was something to the effect of, "oh,yeah. why didnt I think of that!" That made me feel just great about the competence of these people. Anyway, they gave me an A/D (i think) cat food. They say that if she doesnt accept that or regurgitates it after a few days, then I need to bring her BACK in for a tube feeding or something. This poor lizard must really be sick of the car. Hopefully, she'll accept this cat food. Thanks, again.

Here's a tip, mix it with just enough warm water and or electrolites (i can NEVER spell that right!!) (you can get electrolites by exoterra from pet store, or use some pedialite) so that you can get it into an eyedropper or syringe. Only do this for about 4-5 days, depending on how much she takes. When she starts to look a bit stronger (ie, doesn't need WAY extra cals but still extra help with food etc) take her off the cat food. It is very high in protein and staying on it for more than a week is a no no, will hurt her kidneys possibly (short terms is fine though). After that go to the baby food, as i said. You may want to buy a few flavours to experiment with. I found my panther likes sweet potato best. I tried many kinds... believe me!! (God forbid they make anything EASY for us!!! LOL JK). Oh, you can also add some powdered or liquid calcium to both mixtures. I think I forgot that last time...
Ok, after you have your food ready mist her really well with warm water until she starts to drink. If/when she does move in with the dropper and drop it in. If she likes it she'll keep gulping it down, if not you may have to keep tricking her with the water. If she doesnt drink put a little on her lips and try and open her mouth with your fingernail really quickly (be sneaky, don't want to freak her out). When she gets a taste she will hopefully start doing the drinking thing. If she freaks out about the dropper near her mist until she shuts her eyes, then do it! HAHA! (I had to do this a lot... )
If she STILL wont take any (but i'm sure she will) and it's been a good day since she's eaten, you will have to force her mouth open carefully and drop some in. As long as she gets a good dropper full a day that's ok... But I don't think you'll have a problem. She's probably very hungry. Instinct will help her to eat.

You just never know about vets... mine was GREAT, but when i asked him to keep the eggs he put them in the incubator orion was recovering in until i got them. It was set at 90*F... duh. Oh well....
Keep us posted!!!