Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Everything I've researched is geared towards SAMIR and polyvent and the such. What about Crofab? It's FDA approved, so do you still have to go thru the same extensive red tape? I know you need one hell of a bank roll, but assume that wasn't an issue. Is it the same procedure without the FDA part?

Hi:

Providing you have the spare $$ lying around all you need is to convince your physician to write you a prescription. 12 units@ $1,650.00 each is a good starter supply for a moderate envenomation providing it's one of the Crotalids that CroFab is very effective treating. C. helleri & C. molossus require more CroFab than lets say; C. atrox or C. scutulatus at least according to the data from Protherics & Dr. S. Bush.

The next hurtle would be to find a pharmacy to order the units for you.

Good Luck
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You can take the animal out of the jungle but you can never take the jungle out of the animal.

Al

Keep in mind that cro-fab has a very short shelf life, and I can say from experience that it is not very effective against molossus. I understand it it not so great for horridis either. On the other hand it is usefull for hellari in volume(keep in mind that ml for ml, viridis is much more toxic that atrox or molossus)

.

What I heard for helleri was sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt work too well. Someone posted a crofab effectiveness chart on this forum some time ago and crofab was least effective on helleri by a huge margin over molossus and horridus.

I posted it just a few weeks ago..here it is again:

Table 2. ED50 Values for CroFab in Mice
To determine the crossneutralizing ability of CroFab to protect mice from the lethal effects of venom from clinically important species. Separate groups of mice were injected with increasing doses of CroFab pre-mixed with two LD50 of each venom tested.
ED50 for each venom

C. atrox 5
C. adamanteus 8
C. scutulatus 15
A. piscivorus 3
C. h. atricaudatus 7
C. v. helleri 122
C. m. molossus 25
A. c. contortrix 4
S. m. barbouri 7
C. h. horridus 6

Based on the data from this study in mice, CroFab has relatively good crossprotection against venoms not used in the immunization of flocks used to produce it, except for C. v. helleri, where a very high dose is required, and for C. m. molossus, where a moderately high dose is required.
Challenge Venom ED50 (expressed as mg antivenin/mg venom)
Study Objective & Design Endpoint Measured Major Findings and Conclusions (Note: Lower numbers represent increased potency against venoms listed)
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You can take the animal out of the jungle but you can never take the jungle out of the animal.

Al

That shows that crofab is least effective on helleri. Dr. Bush said crofab didnt work well on some populations. Also, on his show, he stated that one of his patients recieved a record amount of antivenom for a helleri bite: 70 something. The helleri was large and held onto the victim pumping in huge amounts of venom. He didnt look too well on tv but he recovered.

Id much rather take a mojave bite than a helleri, thats for sure. (as many of you know, I find both species nearby while road cruising)

Really? what about the evolution of the mojave venom. over the past ten years, the venom has developed more neurotoxic properties. You never know what you are gonna get is my opinion on it. I did just read a paper by Willium Hayes which did say that helleri toxins killed, to his surprise, mice faster then mojave. So I guess it just depends on which pocket of snakes you get bit by, not that anyone should to begin with.

kevin

Well, phobos' post showed that crofab works well on mojave toxins. Being neurotoxic, they effects can be slowed with life support, unlike helleris, as the venom causes bleeding and tissue damage and much more pain than mojaves. From what I saw on Dr. Bush's show, mojave envenomations were fairly easy to treat, and the patients seemed to show the least pain. The helleri bites were usually pretty bad and destructive. After seeming that, Id much rather take a mojave bite. They are dangerous if you cant get to a hospital, but treatment seems to be well beyond mojave venom, unlike treatment for a helleri and other heavily hemotoxic snakes.

If you check out Wolfgang Wusters website there are a number of papers published regarding the variability of snake venom intraspecies depending on where they come from and the prefered prey... They are authored by Wolfgang Wuster, Dr Bryan Fry et al. depending on the paper. Great science guys!!

http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Publications.htm
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You can take the animal out of the jungle but you can never take the jungle out of the animal.

Al