Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello. I just purchased two WTF's and have them housed in a 20 gallon terarrium with two artificial plants to climb on, a hiding cave, and water pool with a small heating pad on the underside of the tank directly beneath it to keep the water slightly warm. The smaller of the two white's, Phil, seems to be lethargic and doesn't eat much. I've been hand feeding him 2-3 crickets a day (with plastic tweezers) because otherwise Sid will eat them all herself. He also tends to always have his protective eye flaps up as well, giving his eyes a glazed over look. They do have a 100W basking lamp (with UVA) on one side of the tank, about 4-5 inches from any rest leaves, too. I am using T-Rex Forrest Bed substrate with natural moss.

Is there anything you'd recommend for my smaller white, Phil? I don't want him to be dependant on hand feedings as he will have to learn how to hunt for his crickets like Sid does. I've thought about putting a partition between the two to see if he does better on his own, but I don't want to alienate him either. When have to handle them, I do use non-powdered latex gloves.

Sid is adjusting well, eating heartily, and very active. Phil, well he reminds me of a depressed adolescent who never leaves his room. Any suggestions?

Are they babies? and is he hanging around near the undertank heater? also is he skinny? Just wondering so i can help u out. Also they dont need the undertank heater and lamp unless u have live plants in ur tank. Hope the little guy is ok.
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3 Baby Whites Treefrog (Faygo[M], Fanta[F], Max[M])
1 Pacman (Big Mac[M])
3 Cats (Cindy[F], Rex[M], Tabby[F])
1 Mississippi Map Turtle (Lucky[M])
1 Parakeet (Swifty[F])
[F]=FEMALE [M]=MALE

Also is Phil(i think ur frog name) eating ok? like will he lap up the crickets if u put it in front of him. Or do u force feed him.
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3 Baby Whites Treefrog (Faygo[M], Fanta[F], Max[M])
1 Pacman (Big Mac[M])
3 Cats (Cindy[F], Rex[M], Tabby[F])
1 Mississippi Map Turtle (Lucky[M])
1 Parakeet (Swifty[F])
[F]=FEMALE [M]=MALE

Phil will eat if you put the cricket in front of him. He caught a couple himself today, and ate 2 others that I put in front of his face.

One thing that seemed odd is that his protective eye covering (eye-lid?) seems like it's always up and giving him a glazed look. The other White, Sid, doesn't have this trait and is very bright eyed. Do you think it would be a safe move to put Phil in quarantine for a little while, or just let him be? Thank you again!

i see no reason to quarintine him as long as he is eating, i prefer to hand feed my whites so if thats what it takes to get him to eat stick with it

Quote: Posted by: AnnoyingGuy12 at Thu Oct 7 16:07:47 2004

"Are they babies? and is he hanging around near the undertank heater? also is he skinny? Just wondering so i can help u out. Also they dont need the undertank heater and lamp unless u have live plants in ur tank. Hope the little guy is ok."

I would assume they are pretty young. I was stupid and forgot to ask their ages, but it was likely the people at PetCo wouldn't know anyways. They are about an inch long. Philip (the little one who doesn't eat much) is kind of skinny. You can barely see the hip bones on him, and his legs look a little frail in comparison to his sister, Sid. When you pick him up to examine him though, he gets active and clings to you like a little child would, not wanting to let you go.

I put the lamp there mainly to get UV, but I suppose I should've bought a flourescent bulb for him rather than a heat basking lamp. I use only artificial plants to keep mites away, and the undertank heater is situated under the bathing pool to keep them warm during the chilly nights we get in the desert region of Southern California. If I really don't need it, I'll turn it off or return it. It does tend to get cold here during January and their section of the house doesn't get very much furnace heat (stays around 55-60F).

Today when I left for work, he was chilling on the leaf of one of the plants I have in there. When I returned, I found him sitting on the bottom of the tank, which I know from raising anoles isn't a great sign. He seems responsive with an effort of a couple budges and will still hop, but he doesn't seem to have moved a whole lot during the day except from his perch. I'm a bit worried. Do you think this might be due to the stress of a new environment, even though it's certainly bigger than what he's used to? Anoles are kind of like that, and don't enjoy change much. Thanks for all your advice. It is truly appreciated.

One clue to keeping frogs is you know there's something wrong if they don't eat. So if you don't have to force feed him at this point, it's probably not a health issue. My frogs, just as an example, all have different eating and tanning (lol as I like to call it--sitting out under the light) personalities. One of my frogs, Cadi, will eat anything and everything. Of course I don't let her, but she has a HUGE appetite, and if I don't individually feed the frogs, she'd eat all the crickets herself and the other ones wouldn't stand a chance. On the opposite end I have Audi, who will only eat when I hand feed him or if he can hide and wait for the crickets. I used to not hand feed them, I would just put them in a separate cage with the crickets, and if I put another frog in with Audi, he would get nervous and wouldn't eat. So this could be your frog's personality, not being an aggressive eater. I do have two other frogs, Bentley and Beamer, and Bentley also goes after everything very quickly and aggressively, but once he's full he'll stop eating, unlike Cadi. And Beamer...well I guess Beamer's just your average frog! And as far as them sitting out, if they're constantly resting on the ground, there may be a problem, but if you just find them there every once in a while it's not a big deal. I find mine there and there's nothing wrong with the frogs at all. Maybe just searching for a cooler place, or a better source of heat. Usually mine don't move quickly from one place to another...they take their time, resting every once in a while and then continuing to their designated spots. Usually my frogs don't sit on the ground, they're either on branches or sitting at the bottom of a leaf. I guess another thing to look for is stool samples. If you find anything odd with them, or they do not look normal, try to keep track of whose is whose. Do you vitamin supplement by dusting the crickets during any of the feedings? Usually once or twice a week is enough but it helps them get the vitamins and nutrients they need that they don't get from the crickets themselves. Either that or gutloading the crickets. Wow this is a long message so I guess I'll stop. Just let me know what you think...

Thank you so much for all the messages and advice.

So far it looks as if Phil (the small one I was worried about) is sticking to the trees I have in the tank. I think the issue was just that he was a finicky eater, but I'm sure if he was hungry enough he'd come down and hunt for himself. I've been feeding him by hand and he's been eating anywhere from 3-4 baby crickets a day. I am dusting them with Repti-vite twice a week, gutloading them with Flukers Cricket Quencher (w/ calcium). During the daytime, their tank stays at a steady 80 degrees and is around 70-75 at night with an undertank heater. I took off the basking lamp because it seemed like too much heat for them.

Sid, well she must just be an agressive eater and loves to hunt. Both of them seem to be fine right now. I was probably just overreacting, like any new parent Thanks again guys, and I'll update you if there are any further developments.

Here is a pic of Phil. You can kind of see the glazed over look in his eyes. Just want to make sure this is normal for daylight hours.

WoW!!! The eyes do look wierd kinda. My frogs have a glaze too whne they all cuddle up in this plant i have and theirs just has like a light white color to it and whne i mist them i see them open their eyelids. never really saw a frogs with that much white. Mayb its just the pic.... Anyways ur frog looks healthy.
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3 Baby Whites Treefrog (Faygo, Fanta, Max)
1 Pacman (Big Mac)
3 Cats (Cindy, Rex, Tabby)
1 Mississippi Map Turtle (Lucky)
1 Parakeet (Swifty)

The glazed eyelid is allright. Both of my WTFs do that in the day while they sleep. I guess its just like closing their eyes. He should open them at night, though. As far as his age, I can give you a fairly good estimate. I tracked the growth of mine every week since they were babies. If yours is about an inch long, then I would guess he is about......
Holy! Hes tiny! lol. (I dont follow the imperial system) Well, mine were never that small....... but I trached a pattern, and although it wont be all that accurate, you can put a safe bet on it that he is 3-5 weeks old, though I'm guessing 4. I got mine from a pet store who bred him, and he was 6 weeks old when I bought him, and was 4.8 cm. Anyways, enough of my blabbing, good luck with Phil!

Wow. If ur frog is skinny and you can see the bones start feeding it more. Im sure it's not ur fault and it's petco's. They seem to be soo smart whne they talk to you but then stuff they see is sooo dumb. Hope the guy gets better.
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3 Baby Whites Treefrog (Faygo, Fanta, Max)
1 Pacman (Big Mac)
3 Cats (Cindy, Rex, Tabby)
1 Mississippi Map Turtle (Lucky)
1 Parakeet (Swifty)