Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK,i know, but i have not seen Het Spiders, is there no such thing? Like Het Pastels, the Pastel is the Het for a Super Pastel. Thanks... John
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0.1 Albino
1.0.1 Pastel
1.0 Orange Ghost
1.0 (F1)Banded Ball
1.1 100% Het Piebald
1.1 100% Het Butterscotch Ghost
1.1 100% Het Yellow Ghost
3.18.3 Normal Balls

Correct, the morph is actually a het. The rest are everyday normals.
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John Light
Pristine Pythons
ristinePythons@Hotmail.com" target="_blank">Contact Me

As far as I know, all spiders so far have been het for the spider gene. Heterozygous just means an unmatched pair of genes, in this case one normal copy at the spider gene location and one with the spider mutation. The big question is if there are now some homozygous spiders with two copies of the spider gene or not.

Because some of the first morphs where recessive and with recessive the heterozygous animals are supposed to look normal some people have got in the habit of thinking that "het" means something like "normal looking gene carrier". However, now that we have some dominant type morphs it is helpful to remember the real meaning - having an unmatched pair of genes. The mutation type (recessive, co-dominant/incomplete dominant, completely dominant) tells you what the hets look like relative to normals and homozygous mutants.

Once you get your head around the wider definition of het and understand which co-dominants are hets you can use the same rules to predict the offspring odds with any het breedings, regardless of the mutation type. For example, breeding two pastels together is just like breeding two het albinos together. Both are het X het breedings and each egg has a 25% chance of being completely normal, a 50% chance of being a het, and a 50% chance of being homozygous mutant. Then you just need to remember that het pastels are pastel looking and homozygous ones are super pastel looking.

WOW, a lot of info. All those terms still have me a little unsure, but its slowly clearing up. Thank you for taking time to help me better understand.

I think this will be the case where i produce before i understand.

Is there a site where i can go that it lists all these Dom. Co-dom. Rec. ect... and i can print it? And then somewhere where it tells what each Ball(morph) is?

Again, thanks Randy... John
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0.1 Albino
1.0.1 Pastel
1.0 Orange Ghost
1.0 (F1)Banded Ball
1.1 100% Het Piebald
1.1 100% Het Butterscotch Ghost
1.1 100% Het Yellow Ghost
3.18.3 Normal Balls

Except I apparently screwed it up ...

"For example, breeding two pastels together is just like breeding two het albinos together. Both are het X het breedings and each egg has a 25% chance of being completely normal, a 50% chance of being a het, and a 50% chance of being homozygous mutant. Then you just need to remember that het pastels are pastel looking and homozygous ones are super pastel looking."

The middle sentence should read:

"Both are het X het breedings and each egg has a 25% chance of being completely normal, a 50% chance of being a het, and a 25% chance of being homozygous mutant."

It's easy to mess it up and I didn't even catch that it added up to more than 100%!

I caught it when i 1st read it. I figured you were human and mad a mistake. Thanks though...

Hey Jeff and Jeff and a few others, i am starting to learn this, can i now play with you??? John
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0.1 Albino
1.0.1 Pastel
1.0 Orange Ghost
1.0 (F1)Banded Ball
1.1 100% Het Piebald
1.1 100% Het Butterscotch Ghost
1.1 100% Het Yellow Ghost
3.18.3 Normal Balls

For a guy who "owns" so many high end ball morphs, you really should know. I mean really, you say you own well over 10K worth of ball pythons (35 balls in all) and you're telling me that you didn't know that spider is a dominant morph? Who's kidding who?

That is what i am saying. When i look at a Ball i see either morph or Het. for a morph. I know, really stupid.

I know how to feed them. I know how to care for them. I know what i like(as far as looks or morphs). BUT other than that, i know very little. I did have my 1st clutch hatch out a month ago from my 1.0 Pastel X 0.1 Normal. That was a lot of fun.

I am trying to learn. that is why i ask all the dumb questions. Hell, maybe i got more money then sense(been told that before).

Bottom line, i love Ball Pythons and like breeding them and raising them. My 8 year old daughter loves them and enjoys cleaning them with me. So i just need to read a little(or a lot) more and maybe someday i will stop asking dumb questions. Thanks for the reply... John
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0.1 Albino
1.0.1 Pastel
1.0 Orange Ghost
1.0 (F1)Banded Ball
1.1 100% Het Piebald
1.1 100% Het Butterscotch Ghost
1.1 100% Het Yellow Ghost
3.18.3 Normal Balls

Didn't I read something somewhere about the possibility of a fatal homozygous where breeders hypothesized that since they found no evidence of homozygous in a particular animal that it may have been that carrying both alleles (terminology check?) proved fatal to the animal and that's why they've never seen one? (Whew! Long run-on sentence. I should know better.) Any thoughts?

Chris
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0.1 Normal
0.2 Het Piebald
1.0 Reduced Pattern
0.1 Banded
0.1 Screaming Child

A homozygous lethal mutation is always a possibility until proven otherwise. If we ever do run into one in snakes (they are known in other species) the problem is that you prove it by the absence of a homozygous animal. It takes a long time to be sure you weren’t just unlucky in producing the homozygous.

homozygous lethal mutation is always a possibility until proven otherwise. If we ever do run into one in snakes (they are known in other species)

It is pretty well known in one snake mutation. Albino Lampropeltis ruthveni seem to not be able to reproduce with each other only producing albino offspring when bred to heteros of the opposite gender.

I have personally spoken to scores of breeders of this form and have yet to find a albino to albino breeding. Pretty big names too. They all report bad eggs or dead in the egg babies. No viable albino babies. Bummer.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

I guess I'll have to find the right forum to ask more info about those. I think here it will just confuse people who might think we are talking about albino ball pythons. It seems to me that if homozygous albino isn't lethal then it shouldn't mater how you got it (het X het, het X homozygous, or homozygous X homozygous). Maybe it's that female albinos can't produce good eggs or something. Some hairless and tailless rodent females can't be used as breeders.

I can attest to the hairless rat part.
Some females never produce offspring.
(While the others lack the ablity to lactate,so they eat the babies.)
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3.12 Ball Pythons
0.1 Mutant Thayeri