Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, so today marks the 4th week my baby Gray banded king has not eaten. Bought him at the NARBC show on Sept 12th. He did eat a small lizard on the 12th of Sept, but my attempts to get him to eat pinks have failed. I've tried f/t pinks, scented pinks, regular pinks and still nothing. He is very young, about 10 inches and I'm wondering what else I can do? I've read all the other posts and have had experience with this, but not with a GBK. It took my Cal King about 2 /12 weeks before I got him to take pinks.
Any suggestions would be helpful at this point.
Thank you in advance.
-Ryan

Welcome to the Anguishing Owners of Alterna Club! My persoal record is 2 years for a generic but typical anguish/struggle periods are more like 2-6 months. The attached pic is a 12 month anguish.
"Assist feeding" fat mouse tails weekly will keep him healthy and I usually offer a scented head or full tiny pink then(if refused) follow up with the tail and a week later repeat the process.
For the truly anal, here's a tip: after a wash with Ivory soap, soak the pink for a bit in Ketchup, rinse, scent and offer. Ketchup is an old remedy for skunk sprayed dogs and really does eliminate odors.
I took this year off from Alterna, couldn't face it again, but for variety bred a few equally obnoxious little milks. The "not feeding" pile is at 4 months now.
You can do it, you're a member of AOAC now! Keep your sense of humor above all else. Jeff

Lol Jeff, thanks for the advise. Even if I use the Ketchup technique, I still dont think that's gonna work because he wont even eat lizards right now. Looks like I'm going to have to resort to forcing tails or even full pinks. I'll give him 1 more week of trying scented pinks.
Thanks for the saucy advise!!
-Ryan

Are the pictures you posted his cage? What is the heat source?

Yes, that is his cage. Substrate is now calcisand and the heat source is an exoterra under tank heater. Cool side of tank is about 80 -84 degrees while the warm side is about 92 - 96 degrees depending on time of day.
Any opinions??
Ryan

Does he have cover to hide in on both the hot and cool ends of the cage? No hiding spots can cause some alterna to not thermoregulate properly, particularly if they are shy. If it's an under the tank heater, pile some pieces of cardboard up in the cage on top of the hotspot, several layers thick, such that it creates a temperature gradient where he can pick his temperature and still be out of sight. A very slight fold in each piece will allow him to choose what layer it wants to bask in.

I am not real familiar with calci sand, but we keep all of our snakes on aspen shavings, a few inches deep. They appear to use it for a variety of things and I've done it for 25+years without problems. It really allows for temperature choice to be made by the snake and not the keeper which is very important.

Do you have any humidity options?

Good luck.

He does have a hide on each side of the tank. Near the center of the tank (a little closer to the warm side) I have a stackable brick contraption made by T-rex that provides gradient temp zones. As for humidity, I dont have anything special other than his bowl of water in the tank that may provide some slight humidity. He is very active, but seems to have no interest in pinks or side blotched lizards. He is just getting over a slight respitory infection in which I remedied by giving Baytril every other day. He seems fine now as that was about a week ago and maybe he is still recovering from it. How long until I get worried about him not eating. It has already been 1 month and I dont want to force feed but if I have no choice, then I will. Again, Thank you for your help!
-Ryan

Hi Ryan,

Your temps may be a little too high. I have been keeping GBK's for a few years at temps between 75 - 82 degrees. Even though GBK's are from a pretty hot area, most of their time is spent in a sub-terranian environment that is quite a bit cooler than one would think. I have had several slow starters over the years and have tried many different techniques to get them to feed. Most of them get started after a few weeks, but some are more difficult. I have found that most of these animals will start feeding on their own after a winter brumation. I typically tail feed a few times and put them down for a few weeks(usually Dec.-Jan.). Good luck and keep us posted.

TJ

Hey Ryan,

TJ's point is well taken. If you have a decent heat gradient already at the hot end, cool the rest of the cage down a bit.

Also, take no offense to this, but if you are using that big bowl shaped hidebox for a tiny alterna, that could be improved. Alterna love to be tightly hidden under stuff (cracks in rocks is where they hunt, but they live in tighter underground areas that are cooler, humid and dark. That is why I suggest aspen shavings because they can tunnel, make their own hiding spots and it really allows for temperature gradation to be determined by the snake.

Additionally, I don't know how often you handle him or if his cage is in a high activity part of your house, but now would be a time to keep him quiet and leave him alone. Sorry if this obvious to you...

If he is in good weight, you should be OK for bit without him eating, and you may make it through a winter cooling period to try in the early spring late winter.

A water bowl in a cage with an open top does little to add humidity. I don't know how you cover your cage. However, alterna love damp moss in a plastic container. They may not use it all of the time, but they will spend several days a month in one of these set-ups, and not always associated with their shed cycles.

Hope he turns around for you and good luck.

Well as far as him being in good body weight for a cooling, I'm not too sure as I know that his only meal ever is 1 small side blotched lizard. Will that be enough to get him through winter?

I would say he has pretty good gradient heat zones in his tank, especially in the brick pile where he seems to enjoy spending most of his time. I dont handle him often right now while I'm trying to get him to feed and the activity level by the cage is minimal because he is in my bedroom usually alone until I get home from work at night.
The tank he is in has a screen lid and I'm afraid I cant do too much to raise the humidity level, but I will add a moss filled hide box and see if he likes that.
Here is some pictures of his cage setup. Criticism is welcome as I know I have much to learn still.
Thanks,
Ryan

Cover 2/3rds or 5/6ths of the tank top with a plastic barrier- I use a child's white board- and then one misting with a spray bottle will keep the humidity up for days...also FWIW switching to shavings/mulch might make keeping the humidity up easier.

Good Luck!

Hi Ryan,

If you add the moss box set-up you won't have to worry about partly covering the cage. That is a good idea too, but, sometimes presents ventilation issues which further complicate providing heat gradients.

Have you actually checked what your temps are throughout your cage? If he is spending most of his time in the brickpile, is that by chance the hottest or coolest place in the cage?

If those pictures are current your snake "looks" like he could handle a few months of cooling off. There are things to do to aid in hopefully having a successful outcome to a cool off time. Have you cooled off colubrids before?

This was a few years ago... I was desperate...
I bought a pair of GB's from a San Diego show for a good price because they had not eaten yet.
This is what I ended up doing after going thru the same senarios you are going through with that great looking GB by the way .

I tried everything I was getting bummed. The GB's still looked ok wieght wise after 3 1/2 months but had not eaten.

I decided to give them a sense of brumation.
Only for 2 months .......
I cooled them off for a week, turning the heat down 5 degrees each day (HELIX)as they stayed in their hides.
I then kept them at the appropriate brumation temp for GB's for two months only because I didn't want them to perish. Then turned the heat on 5 degrees each day until they were at the optimal temp. I waited a week while they cruised their cages. I was anticipating and wanting to put pinks in bad but waited.
The GB's were very active !!!
6 days later in the evening while it was almost dark I put in lizard scented pinks and they were hit hard and swallowed so quick it was amazing.
I never had trouble with them again.

Try that if you get to a desperation point.

Put them down for two months so they get the (in nature) thing going...

Tony Lanzi p.s. Sorry for the book.. What do you think Hubbs..lol!

I bought a non eating pair once from a show... San Diego IRBA
I got a good price and new they had not eaten yet...
I tried everything you have and I was at my wits end it had been 3 1/2 months.
I though... what if they were in the wild?????

Well I gave them more hides and began to turn their heat down 5 degrees each day until they had no heat a week later. I put them in small containers and in the garage. It was November and Dec. in So.Cal. mid 50's think. I kept them covered with NO LIGHT what so ever.
After 2 months I gave them a little light each day and a 5 degree
increase in heat each day. (HELIX control)After a week they were back in their enclosures and very active.
I waited another week and then in the EVENING I gave them each a lizard scented pink !!!
They both hit so hard and swallowed the pinks so fast it was amazing needless to say I was stoked. Two days later they each ate another and so on and so on.
I have never had a problem since using this method no mater what species or time of year it is.

Sorry for the book !

Tony Lanzi