Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i have been around reptiles for awhile now, & are just now thinking about beardies. i have surfed this form , & see a few people's different opinions, i am not looking to profit off the dragons , just to admire their beauty(i'm shure regs will do),i would love somebody to explain all the fuss over these different morphs. from what i have read, sompeople are selling morphs that aren't true morphs. i do not want to rain on anybodies parraide, but why mess around with MOTHER N's work.
p.s. i love the out spokeness of a few people(you know who you are)keep it up

Hey people are the "Animal that alters it's environment"

and often to the detriment of the altered

and I think you are right in that folks who breed pets need to take a GOOD LONG HARD LOOK at the mess we have made with dogs!!

so far I think the main breeding of dragons is not so bad (I HOPE) ....

I am not aware of anyone trying to say breed them with deformed bodys the way we have done with pug-nosed dogs for example!

just natural color variations by and large.... say like breeding for a black or brown or white horse

and some colors are just not stable I think.....
the white colors are I think more of a recessive trait?

but the Red/Orange/Yellow colors are present to a degree in any dragon I think.... ear patches for example.

It would be interesting for someone in say a college biology / vet program to do some genetic studys for all of us to see if any bad genes are color linked etc... before we start hearing of genetic linked problems for some familys ??

anyone heard of any study like this?
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More people are willing to spend more money for a rarity, the unfortunate part is in an animal like a bearded dragon, there was a small gene pool to begin with. To get those rarities, breeders have to inbred sibling, father to daughter or mother to son. Many times creating more problem in offspring from dragons that were already related for several generations back to begin with here.

You don't usually see breeders admitting they are doing this, even though it is an industry acknowledged fact. But in the last few years some major ones have started to admit it and that it was a mistake. Some are submitting babies from cluthes for studies to find what it wrong with them, they are pretty sure it is a result of that inbreeding, but not what is wrong with the offspring.

The most often problem is smallness and inability to thrive, also gout (both regular and what they call false gout), high death rate in hatchling, neurological problems, over active or underactive immune systems.

We have been able to correct some of the problems in ones with immune system dysfunction in a variety of ways, boosting the immune system by adding (this will freak some people out) healthy adult bearded dragon filtered feces to their diet. Both forms or gout are treatable with two medications that they seem to tolerate well. Its just a shame that the animals have to deal with this to begin with, but we are understanding more each month about the effects to produce those rare traits sought after.

People forgot that a "common" beardie is wonderful in its own right if its healthy. I think there will come a time when strong, healthy good size bearded dragons are the rarity. We have been raising dragons with this in mind, we now are producing babies that are hitting 18 inches, 350 grams at 6 months and never had a parasite, worm or any illness. Before anyone ask, no, they are not for sell, they are given to other breeders, researchers or to people who we have worked with that have lost bearded dragons to disease and have never experienced a heathly dragon.

Funny thing though, even though we only are shooting for health and size, we are getting some beautiful colors!! I think being so healthy is bringing out some colors in them that have never been seen in their past lines. And it is not just genetics, we have several that come from clutches that the remainder of the clutches rasied by others are smaller and no where near the colors. Below is some of our adult girls, except the top left one was 6 months there, she was at 18 inches and 380 grams then. Her brother is even bigger!

Commons can be awesome with proper care, diet and lights. Not to mention the personality, intelligence and bond they have with their owners becasue they are not inbred.

beautify dragons Nice to know my normal baby isn't too far off from your stock. He's 15" long and 200g at last measurment (a week ago). He's going into shed again so another growth spurt is on its way.

it always nice to see good size babies, so many are getting smaller and smaller with each generation. I was so shocked to ssee the size they are in the wild, tells us something about theo ones in captive breed and what has happend to them.

He is about 6 months old. He doubled his weight in less than a month which surprised me. It took forever to get him to 100g (well about 2 months), now he is 200g .

Inland bearded dragons naturally come in two colour variations. The mix of browns, greys and tan patterns commonaly referred to 'normal phase' and a more reddish coloured pattern found in dragons inhabiting areas with more reddish coloured sand than in other areas. Breeders used selective breeding to enchance the naturally occuring colour variations to produce a more livid red colour. These days alot of colour morphs are available. Yellows, oranges, lavenders/pastes, snow (white), patternless and blood reds. There are differing opinions about leucistic dragons, if they exist or not but since I don't recall seeing any pictures of them...can't say if they do exist or not.

Care does need to be taken to ensure the genepool of bearded dragon doesn't get too inbred to ensure a healthy and robust species. As Australia as not yet lifted it's ban on exportation of any wildlife, we have to ensure our current captive breed population doesn't become tainted. Most responsible breeders care very careful about how they breed their dragons to ensure fathers are not bred to daughters and similar practices. Many out breed their dragons to freshing up the genepool of their breeding animals to reduce harmful genetic mutations.

I've been lucky or maybe it's the care you put into the dragons. I have 7 so called high demand morphs from pastels to reds. All of them are less than a year old and huge, healthy, bright awesome dragons. My male is just about one year old today he measured 22 inches and 698 grams. He's a Chris Allen beauty Redflame X sandfire red. He was 18 inches at 5 months. My second in size is from sandfire GG X red/gold and she is 20 inches and 544 grams got her in November at 3 months old. Then candy a red/orange X snow from Chris Allen she is 19 inches and 502 grams been 18 inches since 6 months old just getting bigger in mass got her at 2 months in November. Then my youngest is a Hypo Pastel from the ranch he is one of my youngest he is 18 inches and 444 grams got him in February. Then there is my newest addition a red X from Chris Allen just a baby and off to a great start already. Still waiting to breed these beauties. Can't wait! Even with their nice size still got to wait till 18 months cause they still have some growing to do. Fustrates me when I hear of peoples breeders being 16 inches and 350 grams at 3 years old. Think something is missing in the care for those dragons. Then you got the veggitarians who deside to enforce this on their beardies giving pellets and greens only. Don't get this whole thing. I try to give them the most natural diet possible. Why take away live food? Missed a few dragons in my post saw it was getting long and just gave you 4 out of 7 dragons. all are over 18 inches and 400 grams. Babies hopefully will take after the parents in health, size, and beauty. Expect these babies next season. Can't wait!!

that not only bought and raised nice color babies from good breeders, but they also cared more about the dragons than just producing colorful offspring for sale. They made sure they were old enough, healthy enough, got good diets and medical care, worried over the incubators and I just love the post when the babies are hatching, you would NEVER know they had not been through this before

There are some very caring breeders on this list and they hang around for support also after the sale....It really boost my hopes when I see breeders like Chris Allen, Joel R, Dana of Sundail Dragons and Laura of Heavenly Herps (I know I am missing some others... sorry) And I love seeing not only their babies, but their adults, they are always healthy looking even after laying a few clutches. You don't see them acting the big shots, they don't need to, their dragons say it all

Exactly CheriS me and chris talk almost daily about breeding and all sorts of things. Great help from the time I bought to now when I'm planning on breeding a few of his gems. I really appreciate this forum and your pogona list all the great breeders, and just the sense of community and caring for others that I see here. thanks every one for making this so enjoyable

When I was looking for a male to go with my girl Bubbles I was looking for personality and confirmational traits instead of color. While I wanted a male that was lighter in color so that the babies would more resemble mom, that wasn't really a big factor. What I wanted to produce were babies with excelent outgoing personalities. See my female is an education animal. She's extremely tollerant of people and situations. Even little kids can pet her and she doesn't mind. Plus I really think that so many people are so caught up in the color of their animals that they are breeding animals that shouldn't be breed cos of other traits.
Anyone notice how many dragons out there have undershot or overshot jaws? Over and under bites if you were. Maybe it's a result of inbreeding? I dunno. Thing is, I think overall body structure and temperment are far more important in a pet species than if they are neon yellow with purple spots and blood red stripes...

Just my take on things