Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I am not at all clued up on snakes, and so am coming here for help.

Firstly, I should say I am from Southern England and there are obviously not many snakes native to here.

The other day I was getting in to the shower and looked down because I thought I saw something move... I realised there was a snake in my bathroom. First of all

it was red and yellow and black rings, about 3 feet long and about 4 inches in circumfrence. The rings went all the way around the body and there was no change in colour on its belly. It was quite angry and so I ran out of the bathroom and closed the door and called the local vet to find out what to do. They said to wait until they got over here, but when they got here the snake had disspeared. We dont have any windows in the bathroom, so I am at a loss as to where it went, and am worried in case it has a whole family just waiting to attack me... Does anyone know what it could be, if it is sociable and if it is venomous? The colours were really vivid, really bright yellow and really bright red, and the rings were fairly evenly sized, there was no one colour more predominant than the other.

Please help! I dont want to find them in my bathroom again if I dont know what they are and dont know what to do with them!

Thanks!

Katy x

The sequence of the banding is the clue. If red and black bands touch it is harmless. If red and yellow bands touch it is a Coral. From the vividness of the colors though this is doubtful. Also Corals do not make good pets so they are much more rare on the market than milk snakes (which is the most likely snake involved). Milks are totaly harmless.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I just spent 10 minutes typing up my post... Hope they are able to find the snake's owner!
Lora

That little saying applies to the 2 species of Micrurus found in the USA and a few found in South America only. It is helpful for me, because I live here in teh USA, but not very helpful for the person with a snake in her bathroom... and could be painfully misleading.

There are several of the 60 species of Coral Snakes that do not follow this rule such as Micrurus surinamensis, Micrurus scutiventris, Micrurus spixii obscurus, Micrurus isozonus, Micrurus filiformis, Micrurus ancoralis... to name a few.

Best advice - If you can't identify it, don't pick it up.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7ftch/snakes_of_colombia/

But the clue is the BRIGHT colors, and the yellow. This elimates almost all the species you mentioned (some sbsps of surmanensis do have unobscured red and yellow bands). As for the rest it is a simple case of noting that the light bands are bordered by black, but are also split by a third black band on those snakes. This differs from the triads we are used to in American corals. So if the snake has a series of black bands bordering the yellow tith no middle black band once again it is safe.

However. Corals are very infrequently seen even here as they are difficult captives. I think it is far less likely to run into a Coral in England.

Also it could be an Erythrolamprus aesulapii.

In any case a "thirtyish" inch coral cannot bite through a good pair of gardening gloves (I know from experience).

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank,

You say bright is the clue.....an albinio burm on black carpet appears much brighter than the same snake does on yellow carpet. Something is only as bright as it appears against the given background....a red and yellow snake would appear bright against white tiles.

As for your Corals M. langsdorffi is a predominatly red and yellow species.

By the same token however, the likelyhood of any Coral especially a South American sp escaped and living in Southern England is about as likely as me finding one here in Australia.

Regards,

Scott Eipper

Scott...no taco. You forget the rules of the game. This is in a bath tub therefore (playing the odds) will be light colored, but a snake with say "black speckling" in the red (as most corals do have) would still not look vivid red.

As to langsdorfi, My pictures (from 4 seperate books)show a snake that is not predominently red and yellow. It has small yellow bands and black speckling on the red. That doesn't fit the description. Also she said that no color was predominant. That all bands about the same size so that does not fit the description either. Unless you are refering to a subspecies I have not seen that snake qualifies even less than an American.

Actually the only one that comes close in Corals would be the Arizona coral M euryxanthus (which fits the criteria) But it would have to be a Mexican specimen as Arizona (I beleave) does not allow collection.

As you said the odds of a coral are slim. The odds of a rare or unusual coral are about zero if that.

So the initial band count rhyme I mentioned still is valid.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank,

You said"
The sequence of the banding is the clue. If red and black bands touch it is harmless. If red and yellow bands touch it is a Coral."

You further quantified it in saying that the red in most corals are speckled with black. (Agreed)

Their are plenty of Coral species (approx 10) that have Red and Black bands in contact with each other. There are about five species that have "red black yellow black yellow black red"....not triads but red touch black just the same.

I realise I am pushing a fairly muted point but....

Regards,

Scott Eipper.

I know those species Scott, but they don't match the description the lady gave.

First most do not have yellow, they have gray/white with some black speckling.

Second, she said Bands are all the same size, which rules that entire group of corals out except (maybe) M. tschudii. But since she describes vivid reds and yellows even that one is questionable. besides, being from Peru it is highly unlikely that a specimen would even make it to the market.

I have done snake identification and rescue for many years. One thing you learn is that when someone gives you information that specific it usually means they are a good observer.

I stand by my advice.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Ok- it's not a native as you pointed out, so that means it's most likely an excaped pet. There are a number of Milk snakes and Kingsnakes that have red, black and yellow bands. Unfortunately, there is also a family of venomous snakes known as Coral snakes that also exhibit that coloration. A rhyme we use here in the U.S. to tell them apart is "Red touch Yellow, Kill a Fellow; Red touch Black, Friend to Jack (or Venom lack)". So if the yellow bands touch the red bands, then it's most likely a North American Coral snake (venomous). Kingsnakes and Milk snakes (like the one on the kingsnake.com banner) are much more common in the pet trade than Coral snakes, so it was probably one of those. Notice on the picture on the banner, that the red and black bands touch so it's a non venomous snake. Kings and Milks are not venomous (they constrict their prey) so the worst they could really do is scratch you up and leave some minor, small punctures if they bit you. I wouldn't hazzard a guess as to what type of Kingsnake or Milk snake it was, many of them are around 3 feet in length and tri-colored, but rest assured that it won't harm you in any appreciable way and would much rather avoid you all together. I suggest you contact your neighbors and see who lost their snake. I'm sure they'll want to come looking for it and be quite happy to know that it's alive, though not in the right apartment! If you do see it again and are in a position to try to capture it- you can try gently sweeping it with a broom into an empty, large trash bin (something at least 2.5 to 3 foot tall with a lid if you've got it) and then you can call the vet or humane society to come and collect it.
Good Luck and in the mean time I hope you discover the snake's owners!
Lora

Thank you! I think I should probably find out who it belongs to - I dont know how though - I dont want to put posters up, because it will freak out some of the older (90 years plus!!)people living around me! Hmmm... I am sure I will think of something!!

Thanks again for your help!

Katy x

As to the disapearance. It could have (a) gone down the drain. (b)Relocated behind the sink or toilet. (c) Disapeared in a crack in the wall (most probable). If you have carpet, this is something it would hide under if it got out of the bathroom. Also dressers, shoes,boxes and open handbags make great hideouts. Your best chance of locating it if it is still ther is to search with only a flashlight at night after the lights have been off for a while.

If it is indeed a milk snake the bite (if it chooses to) will not hurt as it's rather small. So you should be safe to grasp it if you can. Just be sure of the banding first. Then place it in a pillow case and it will be safe to kep while you find the owner.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

The advice given in the previous posts is very misleadiing.

The Rule of Thumb "Red touch yellow, kill a fellow. Red touch Black, venom lack." applies to the 2 species of coral snakes found in the USA, but not all. It is one of those things told to Boy Scouts in the USA at summer camp to keep them from picking up a Coral Snake.

It does not apply to many of the species of Coral Snakes found in South America.

I agree with Frank that it is most likely a milksnake, only because they are very common in captivity... but if you can't identify it, don't pick it up. Don't assume it is not a Coral Snake just because the yellow does not touch the red... because in quite a few species of Coral Snakes the yellow DOES NOT touch the red.

Best rule - if you don't know what it is, don't pick it up.

Tom Anderson

Some of those South American species of Coral Snakes are MUCH more prone to bite than the North American species.
-----
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Tom, note in my long response to Katy1234 that I suggested the person use a broom and a trash can to collect the snake- I never suggested to pick up the snake. I did say that if it were a Milk or King snake that it wouldn't cause much damage if it bit. With an obviously non-native snake to England, it would seem (at least to me) to be more likely that it is an excaped pet and probably a non-venomous species. I did specify that the rhyme is used in the U.S. (cause it wont help you with South American Corals). Glad you pointed out that it doesn't always work, some one not reading carefully might have gotten the wrong idea...
Hope the snake is recovered safely.
Lora

Hello again!

I dont know if it helps, but the snake bore a very distinct resemblance to this snake shown - but the yellow was much brighter - apart from that the bands were around that same size and the colour pattern was the same! Thanks for your help so far - we have had no luck in tracking down an owner though

Katy x

Sorry, maybe this photo will work....

It is from an earlier thread by sblauvelt called "Unknown snake 2" if that helps!!!

Katy x