Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I'm curious as to what most of you think.

What do you think is the percentage of people who buy burms then get rid of them once they get to 11 feet? (Honestly).
Or, if you think the length is usually shorter or longer when burms begin to lose their initial appeal, what length is that?

I guess as a footnote to the above, anyone who's had a burm for less than 2 years should probably indicate that.

Thanks for any & all replies,
tc

I just realized that more than hafe of the people that get burms decide to sell them at about 9-12 feet of length. you always see adds saying tamed burm for sell because i am no longer abeled to give them the care that they need. Not to make people mad but i have seen people on this fourm sell there burms on the net.

It's impossible to accurately formulate "an educated guess" as cold hard date of numbers would be needed. But just as an outright literal "guesss",... I would have to say firstly that many of these burms die unfortunately long before the inexperienced owner would have sold it. So maybe half even make it to adulthood. The causes for the premature deaths could be any of these: [improper heating leads to heat stroke, or too cold leads to life threatening ailments, pneumonia, starvation, etc,.... Improper diet leading to depression, malnutrition, starvation, emaciation, etc..... parasitical infestations leading to starvation. Viral infections. Snake escapes and dies as a result of natural elements. Accidental death due to mishap]

So for the lucky half that may make it to adulthood, I would guess that much more than half are given up, sold, or abandoned. It's very sad.

>>Hi, I'm curious as to what most of you think.
>>
>>What do you think is the percentage of people who buy burms then get rid of them once they get to 11 feet? (Honestly).
>>Or, if you think the length is usually shorter or longer when burms begin to lose their initial appeal, what length is that?
>>
>>I guess as a footnote to the above, anyone who's had a burm for less than 2 years should probably indicate that.
>>
>>Thanks for any & all replies,
>>tc
>>
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Sytstems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

>>It's impossible to accurately formulate "an educated guess" as cold hard data of numbers would be needed. But just as an outright literal "guesss",... I would have to say firstly that many of these burms die unfortunately long before the inexperienced owner would have sold it. So maybe half even make it to adulthood. The causes for the premature deaths could be any of these: [improper heating leads to heat stroke, or too cold leads to life threatening ailments, pneumonia, starvation, etc,.... Improper diet leading to depression, malnutrition, starvation, emaciation, etc..... parasitical infestations leading to starvation. Viral infections. Snake escapes and dies as a result of natural elements. Accidental death due to mishap]
>>
>> So for the lucky half that may make it to adulthood, I would guess that much more than half are given up, sold, or abandoned. It's very sad.
>>
>>
>>>>Hi, I'm curious as to what most of you think.
>>>>
>>>>What do you think is the percentage of people who buy burms then get rid of them once they get to 11 feet? (Honestly).
>>>>Or, if you think the length is usually shorter or longer when burms begin to lose their initial appeal, what length is that?
>>>>
>>>>I guess as a footnote to the above, anyone who's had a burm for less than 2 years should probably indicate that.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for any & all replies,
>>>>tc
>>>>
>>-----
>>It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Sytstems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Sytstems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I wouldn't even know how to begin to estimate, but half seems about right, if not more. Most people who buy a burmese (or any other snake for that matter) don't need one and really don't understand what it takes to keep one. They have no concept of a big snake until they really experience it up close. A lot of it lies on the purchaser, but it has been my experience that many of the pet stores that sell these animals do not do a good job of explaining just what owning a burmese entails. If they really were honest, they wouldn't sell very many. So uninformed and unprepared people buy these snakes and then get a dose of a real live burmese and then don't want it anymore. Sometimes people only see the glamorous side of keeping big snakes, namely the attention they draw when others see them, but don't worry about the nitty gritty of keeping a big snake (feeding rabbits, cleaning up horse sized poo, going the extra mile to keep them warm in winter months, etc., not to mention the fact that their adult burm is capable of doing real damage to them or others). It really is an unfortunate situation.

My albino female is 10 years old, raised from a baby. She is a giant, and very tame. My male is the normal pattern, and is about 6 years old. I've had him for over 3 years (he was a rescue). He was a bit nippy when I got him, but with a little attention and a regular feeding schedule, he calmed down quickly. Recently, I have had several calls from a fellow in a neighboring county trying to convince me to take his son's big albino female. I get quite a few of these calls to live in such a small community.

Most burms in the pet trade don't stand a chance. Unfortunate.

RP

I work at a pet store in kentucky, and i get at least one call a week offering me some kind of large constrictor to sell. generally, i could get these snakes for free if i wanted to, but i have to answer that i already have enough animals to feed. i could literally have a python farm for free, if i wanted to. also, considering the number of utterly stupid things i see happening to snakes in general, the logistics of keeping a biggie, and the kind of people i see buying baby burms at shows (i don't sell the babies at my store, only the occasional rescue.), i'm sure an obscene number of burmese bite the dust early. my guess would be that less than ten percent of people who buy a bumese as a baby keep it for it's entire (natural) life.

-kyle
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I like Kyle's answer though I can't substantiate it either- I doubt many more than 10% stay with their original purchasers for their natual lifetime. I love my pair and can't see parting with them- through thick and thin (and there has been thin, believe me)I've made sure they have had their needs met. I now live in the sticks and raise rabbits and have started to breed pigs for my big guys and to sell prey for others' big guys- so it has been a life changing but rewarding relationship.
Not to deviate the thread but how about retics as opposed to Burms? I have a feeling that while more inexperienced people get into Burms than retics and may manage to learn with them and keep them, that an inexperienced person who purchases a retic is almost certainly destined to "dump" him due to the active nature of the retic. I also feel - through personal conversation with many hobbyists that retics are usually purchased by more experienced keepers because of their - imo undeserved- nasty repuatation. I know this is a little off topic but I kind of wish Burms and Retics could share the same forum.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

I think the situation is about the same with retics, and most snakes for that matter. People decide they want a snake, not realizing how long they will live and the commitment it takes to keep one, and then decides to get rid of it in one way or another. However, that being said, I do think that more experienced herpers get retics, thereby limiting the sheer number of retics out there circulating among the masses. But I would be willing to bet that only a small majority of the reticulated pythons out there sold as babies actually make it to the decade mark, and then even less survive beyond that.

Snake rescue isn't limited to the big ones. I rescued an Everglades rat snake this week, bringing my collection to three -- two big burms and now this guy. He's a beautiful animal, very nice, and quite big and fat for a rat snake. I'm thinking about getting that albino from the guy in the next county who wants to get rid of her. I'm not a rescue organization by any means, but people know me as "the snake man" in our town, and I do visit a number of schools and summer programs with these snakes every year, so I get a lot of calls.

On a similar note, my two burms have bred every year for the last three years. She's laid eggs twice (38 in '01 and 40 this year), and I've made half-hearted attempts to hatch them, and none successfully. I'm not sure that I want them to breed because I don't want to have to sell them to irresponsible customers. I have a cousin who says he wants one so bad he can't stand it, but he would never take care of it properly. I would love to see some babies hatch, but again, I don't want to contribute to the problem we are discussing. After all, baby burmese are a dime a dozen these days.

BTW, I got your email. We'll be in touch, and we'll work something out. And yes, burms and retics should be on the same forum

RP

You've got to really want a ret just to consider having one.
I remember seeing a documentary that had a clip of a 16+ foot ret
fly up a tree to go after a monkey. The way it scaled the tree
with huge curls of its body overlapping the trunk was verrrry impressive. It was almost scary that an animal that big could move that fast straight up a tree.

I don't see rets for sale anywhere near as often as burms, and
it seems like it's always teenagers that are buying them.
(Burms that is, and young teenagers)...

Thanks,
tc

this topic comes up every now and then. i run a very successful wildlife center that concentrates primarily on herps and raptors and on average, we take in over 50 burms annually from well intentioned burm owners who just cannot properly care for their "pets" (or get tired of them). Based on our statistics, there is no doubt in my mind that at least 90% of burms (and that is probably very conservative) become abandoned or change owners at least several times during their life. That isn't necessarily bad but it shows that most people are now equipped or are qualified to keep a large constrictor on a long term basis. I LOVE working with burms and have several long term captives in my care and can understand why most people shouldn't own them; it takes a lot of commitment, resources, dedication, maturity, etc. to keep one of these beautiful giants.

have shown that an overwhelming majority of snakes sold as babies end up with multiple owners. I began keeping captive snakes as an 18-year-old college student, and my collection grew from a single ball python to as many as 15 during my college years. I had a few big ones, with the most at one time being five snakes over 10 feet long. I had two big retics (12 foot male, 15 foot female, both quite tame), two big burms (my current albino and a very light colored 12 foot female with a nasty disposition), and a 10 foot African rock python (nasty as well). I also had a green anaconda that was a hefty seven footer, along with an 8 foot amethystine python. I also owned several smaller snakes, including rat snakes, small African rocks, burms, retics and a lone carpet python. I did the buy/sell/trade thing for a while, and as I got older, entered the workforce and had less time to spend cleaning the cages, I began selling my snakes.

The only one I kept was the albino. I was her second "official" owner, but I helped care for her from the time she was purchased. I helped a friend pick her out, and I helped him with her for the first two or three years of her life. In '95, he sold her to me very cheap under the condition that I not get rid of her. I agreed and have kept her ever since. She is 10 years old, and about 14 feet long and 180 pounds.

When I married, my wife had no problem with the big female (Alberta), and she has been with us ever since. And she will stay with us. Our first child was born 7 months ago, and I look forward to him being able to grow up with Alberta around (but never working with her unsupervised!). The male I have was a rescue that I had no intention on keeping (I was his fourth owner). However, he and Alberta mated during the fall, so I decided to keep him. And he has tamed down nicely and turned into a great snake.

I went through all this to say that most people who buy a snake never have any intention on keeping the snake for its entire life. This is a hobby to many, and you get a snake you've always wanted, keep it for a while and then trade it to somebody for something else. You keep that one until another animal catches your eye and the cycle repeats itself. That's the approach I took for about seven years. The last five, however, have been different. I've made it a point to keep my collection low so I can concentrate on taking good care of what I have. I plan on keeping both my burms for the remainder of their lives. I use them in shows (I've done about 40 shows for nearly 6500 people in the last 12 months), and I've traveled from the metro Atlanta area down to the Florida state line with my burms. They are very valuable to me, and are very much a part of my occupation. But I'm not sure most people look at herpetoculture in this manner.

Just for kicks, I would like to know how the percentage of snakes hatched in captivity that live to adulthood compares with the percentage of those that are hatched in the wild that make it to adulthood. I know this would be impossible to figure out, but it's neat to think about.

RP

in my area (central Virginia), I would say that most are sold when they reach 9-12 feet (at least, that's what most of the ads read). Personally, I find it disgusting that so many people buy these magnificent animals as novelty pets. They're so 'nifty' to own, shock friends and family, etc. etc. etc. I own an albino burmese (August '02 hatchling) that my Mom bought in October of last year. My Mom fell in love with her on sight. After going over the whole size, what she'll eventually eat, and who she'll stay with thing, Mom bought her and I took her home (good deal as far as I'm concerned lol). This is a pic of her.

Prior to owning her, I had a male normal phase burmese that I'd gotten as a rescue some years ago from a coworker. He was going to be kicked out by his roommate because of the snake (or so he said *shrug*), so I agree to take it until I could find it a home. That was the worst tempered creature I have ever owned...like Sybil on acid. One moment he was fine, the next he was hanging off the nearest body part. Thank God he was only about 5 feet long at the time. He tamed down somewhat with some work, though not nearly dog-tame by any stretch of the imagination. I eventually found him a home with someone who really wanted a burm and was willing to dedicate the time to him that he needed.

Last year my other half & I drove a friend down to North Carolina to pick up an unwanted 12' burm and her cage. The guy just didn't want to take care of her anymore, said he didn't have anyone to help him with the big girl. The cage was in a garage, was absolutely filthy with dried urates, old sheds and soiled pine shavings. Her water bowl was one of the large rock-shaped dishes (about the right size for a corn snake). She luckily hadn't developed scale rot, but the scales all along her belly were yellowed from the urine and splitting. We got her home, gave her a bath because she reeked, dismantled and cleaned her cage, and then set her up in a nice cleaned cage and fresh substrate. A couple of sheds later you couldn't tell she'd ever looked rough at all. She's an absolute doll, the sweetest tempered burm I've ever seen.

I see ads in the local paper for burms all the time (at least a couple per month on average) and wish I had the room for them. Almost every ad claims they're moving, can no longer take care of it, etc. Unfortunately, it isn't just the burms but boas and other snakes as well. It seems that people see the 'cute' snake at the pet store and just have to have it. Compound that with the misinformation that many petstores provide and the situation is ripe for unwanted animals. Grrr. Okay, off my soapbox. Can you tell this subject riles me up just a bit? lol

Raven