Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know of one species that has an Axanthic AND an Anerythristic mutation?? Probably not because most of the names are basically made up w/ little or no scientific basis. It is not as simple as Axanthic = no yellow & Anery. = no red. This is obviously the case as both “Snows” have some yellow. If this terminology was 100% correct, what would Anerythristic Hondurans be called? Anery. Hondurans def. have pink/red pigment & the Snows have red AND yellow left behind. Come to think of it, “Axanthic” Ball Pythons are the only species that bear the “Axanthic” moniker. Trans-Pecos Rats have Silvers which is some time of co-dominant thing if I’m not mistaken. One of those may be called Axanthic – I’m not sure. The point is, I think the “Axanthic” Ball Pythons were mislabeled from the get go. I was told that Tracy named them Axanthic because (wild-type) Ball Pythons do not have red pigment. I did not hear this from Tracy but this is what I was told. In order to have the colour brown present, red pigment has to be involved. With all the new mutations (Cinnamons, Bubblegums, etc.) that have popped up, we know red pigment is present in Ball Pythons. What I do know is that there are two types of Anery. Cornsnakes – type A & type B. If I am not mistaken, A has more yellow than B and they are NOT compatible w/ ea. other. I believe what we are seeing in Ball Pythons is parallel to the Corn mutations. A Dbl. Homozygous Albino & Anery. (Type A) animal is called a SNOW. A Dbl. Homozygous Albino & Anery (Type B) animal is called a Blizzard. Don’t get me wrong, I like my SNOWBALLS but they do have more yellow than the VPI lineage. It really doesn’t bother me, I don’t mind admitting it. I would just like to make the point that my line IS a different (& incompatible) mutation so there is really no need to compare the two. What we can compare are the SK & VPI lines. I believe if someone took the time to breed homozygous Axanthics (or Anerys.?) from those two lines together, you would get all Axanthics. The neonate VPI & SK Snows (or Blizzards?) look very similar. Since not many people have seen the mysterious SK Snow it is difficult to compare the adult colourations of the two. As for the Axanthics, when you put my line next to VPI or SK line, you can see the difference between the two. I have produced the VPI lineage Axanthics (& still have the bloodline) also so I know what I’m talking about. As adults, individual animals can be light or dark – from both lines!! I believe there is no difference between the VPI & SK lines – maybe I’m wrong (but if I were a betting man….which I am). My main point is that Snows are NOT pure white!! Snow Boas are yellow & white, Snow Corns are @ least yellow (in the neck) & white – if not multi-coloured. Snow Hondurans are not all white – pink, yellow, & white. The only Snow that is white is the CA King because it is an Albino & Melanistic animal – for terminology sake, it should be called something else. I have tried to convince other breeders who have produced other “Snows” to change the name of their animals but the SNOWBALL name is too catchy & I think they don’t want to lose it. I’m not changing my name (as suggested by SK), because my animals are the only animals that truly represent the definition of a Snow as defined by the other species (with the same genetic make-up) these names are referenced too. Besides, it is just common sense!!! A BLIZZARD is a more extreme SNOWstorm!!!!! Maybe residents of warmer climates do not get the correlation but here in OH, when it snows you can make out what is underneath the Snow. When there is a Blizzard, all you see is white. Let’s have a poll RIGHT HERE ON THIS FORUM & see who feels the other two lines (or at least VPI) should change the names of their Dbl. Homozygous animals. Regardless, I think all the Silver Balls should be changed to Anerythristics. Let’s hear what you think…..

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Chad Bachman

VERY,VERY,VERY NICELY SAID AND I AGREE 110%. WHY IS IT WE SEE THIS MUCH CONTRAVERSY IN BALL MORPHS AND NOT OTHER SNAKES OR LIZARDS FOR THAT MATTER...

STEVE

I always thought that the "snow" would have the charcoal look where the yellow is. Like the "photo" that is on VPI web site where they have their ball thumbnail gallery. When you click the thumbnail you see a white and pale yellow ball. Not the same looking animal.
Perhaps and I may be wrong but if any axanthic bred to a pale albino will give a lighter washed out yellow looking snow. I saw a few snows up close. I liked the first snow that Brian Sharp [VPI] produced had very faint yellow on the sides. I have never saw the SK snow in person just pictures and their snow looks like the VPI snow.
Also Ralph Davis's Jolliff snow yellow is much lighter that the first one that you produced.Mike. I saw both of them in person as babies. Have not seen any snows in person as adults.
My mind set that I had was a ball with NO yellow. Like the thumbnail on the VPI web site. I heard it was a Photo Shop rendition of what they thought the snow would look like. [done prior to a "snow" being accomplished] Perhaps Dave or Tracy could elaborate on this.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
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Always thought a snow (or Blizard) would be pure white. Your line looks like nerds faded albino. I love them all! Nice looking animals!
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John Light
Pristine Pythons
ristinePythons@Hotmail.com" target="_blank">Contact Me

I agree with Mike on the axanthic terminology being wrong. The snow boa is just like a snow ball, so the terms are wrong on one of the snakes. I would like to see a blizzard ball be a cross between an albino and a leucistic ball. Pure white with red eyes. I would also like to see crosses between all the different types of axanthics to check compatibilities and if anything create double hets for a "super axanthic" cross that would have the best of each axanthic.
Stephen Lamb
Sooner State Reptiles

A leucistic w/ red eyes would prob. be just called an Albino Leucistic or "Pink-eyed" Leucistic as they are referred to in Colubrids. I do have Dbl. Hets. for both strains (Jolliff & VPI) Axanthics (or Anerys.?) but have bred the female to other animals instead of back to the Dbl. Het. male. Anyone know what a Dbl. Homo. Anery (types A & B) Corn looks like?

is a blizzard leopard gecko a cross between leucistic and albino genes? that is kinda what I was going off of. it really doesn't matter to me what it is called I guess as long as it looks cool (like the silver pastel).

I know a lot of blizard corns are at least het for the original anerythristic (type A) in addition to being homozygous for the type B anerythristic (aka charcoal). I'll have to go over to the corn forum to ask because I can't remember for sure ever hearing of one that proved homozygous type A.

The original Pine Island female that founded the charcoal line was het for type A also and was first bred to a snow. Maybe they have figured out some odd linkage since I was last up on corn genetics or maybe it's just a coincident.

If it turns out that the different types of axanthic ball remove different portions of the yellow it might turn out that a double homozygous axanthic would be lower yellow (or perhaps even no yellow) than either parent line by it's self. The problem is it might be difficult to identify the double homozygous animals 100% short of breeding experiments.

I don't think Blizzard would be appropriate either, a blizzard should be all white (no yellow) which would be possible from Albino X Leucistic as a double homo mutation.

People need to give up the Ghost terminology before Snow and Blizzard!

Hypo as in Hypomelanistic people!!!!

I agree w/ ya on the Ghost/Hypo thing. It has stuck like super glue!!!

I still think it will be a "Pink-eyed" Leucistic or Albino Leucistic. A Blizzard would prob. be a better term for the Albino Super Cinnamon (Chocolate) Dbl. Homo. animal. Whoever makes it first gets to name it. Some names have been changed but not many.....

One thing I do remember from when I bred corn snakes was that the baby Charcoal/Type B Anerythristic/Pine Island had sort of dark blue eyes or eye sockets. You could see the blue through there heads when they are young.

There is no guarantee that we have the exact same mutation in ball pythons but it would be interesting if anyone has noticed anything different about the eyes of any of the axanthic ball lines. Maybe flashlight could help show differences in hatchlings of the different types.

I've been out of the loop on corns long enough that I may be way off but it was looking like the corn caramel mutation was somehow turning red to yellow. Maybe it just enhanced the yellow that was already there to cover the normally dominant red. At any rate, it did seem that yellow and red where related at some level.

The snow corns have sort of a two tone white thing going on. It's like the pattern is still visible in a different texture of white. I think that is what the photo shop of the expected snow ball was getting at.

The blizzard corn didn't seem to have that white on white contrast.

Okay the word "anerythristic" littterally means lack of red (erythrism is a condition of excessive redness so Anerthristic means no red) [a=not/no/"negative"]. ANd the word "xanthic" means a yellow color so again axanthic would be no yellow. Does anyone think that the terms "axanthic" and "anerythrisitc" are mixed up in herpetoculture and those terms being used interchangeably is the reason that the "snows" aren't really "snows"?

Mike,
Do you know of anyone who is trying to produce double axanthics? or double axanthic "snows"?
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Those are "book" definitions which give the laymen an idea of what is going on. Again, refer to the Honduran question. The layers of colour are much more complex than single layers - no red - no yellow, etc. My Snowball is actually an Albino w/ the top layer of yellow removed. This is the mustard yellow. If you look at the side pattern of a normal neonate Albino, you will see a pale yellow which outlines the darker yellow near the belly. I believe this yellow is present under the darker yellow of a normal Albino. In the Snow (Albino), the top layer (or darker yellow) is removed.