Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

My husband and I are planning on taking the herpkeeping plunge soon, and we'd like to save money in the long run by building a cabinet-style cage similar to the one posted by buffysmom just a while ago.

Here's my proposal and drawing. The side panels are on the outside of the structure, with the top panel, cage floors, and back panel built inside that for structural strength. The yellow parts on the drawing are the fluorescent tubes, and the 1"x1" rails support the screen false ceiling (I wish I could find something less obtrusive than the 1"x1" boards, because they are visible from the glass doors.)

---
I. Basic Design.

The interior dimensions of each cage would be 36” from side wall to side wall, 18” from floor panel to false ceiling, and 24” from front doors to back wall. The total enclosure height would be about 70”.

I would construct the enclosure out of 5/8” thickness MDF sheeting, as per Greg Maxwell’s construction methods. I would have used ¾” melamine sheeting, but some have stated that melamine gives off formaldehyde gas when heated.

The back and side walls of the cage would be constructed from this MDF. The front panel would consist of a pair of glass doors with handles and lock, and a 3” litter dam to prevent clogging of the glass track.

The entire cage interior (the floor and side walls) would be finished with black waterproof contact paper for cleanliness, humidity resistance, and aesthetics. In addition, the interior corners would be sealed with aquarium-grade silicone sealant.

II. False Ceiling.

A 4” high false ceiling is employed above each cage to prevent contact between the snake and the heating and lighting elements. It also serves to prevent the heat from one cage from reaching the one above it. This is constructed by adding 1”x1” rails 18” above the cage floor panel (on the inside), and attaching a sheet of screen to it. The screen serves as a barrier between the fluorescent tubes and heating panels resting above, but still allows light and heat to pass through.

The false ceiling would extend 4” above the screen floor, and would accommodate one 24” fluorescent tube and lengths of flexwatt (or similar heating method), top-mounted on the true ceiling above the screen. Unlike the finished back wall of the actual cage areas, there is no back wall for the false ceiling, allowing for adequate ventilation and simple wiring.

III. Raised Floor.

Another 4” must be accommodated for beneath the floor panel of the actual cage. This 4” allows for the use of rolling casters, which simplify maintenance and movement of the cage. In addition, the under-tank heat, preferably flexwatt or similar, would be mounted on the underside of the cage floor panel and hidden by exterior MDF panels. Similar to the false ceiling, the back would be left open for wiring.
---

So here's my questions! Will the screen false ceilings, combined with the open backs directly above, provide enough ventilation? Or should I add vents to the back panels?

Secondly, the three baby cages on the top of the enclosure are a very strange size - basically, a 15 gallon tank with its short side forward. What kind of doors would you recommend for the front? Obviously sliding doors won't work. I'd also like to add side or back access to these cages, because cleaning them and retrieving the snake inside could be difficult. Any ideas on how to do this?

Finally, I need a way to easily access the fluorescent lights and heat elements, which are mounted on the underside of the floors of each cage. Any ideas?

Thanks for any help!! The design is a little complicated for my first cage-building project, but I want the enclosure to last for a long time. Plus, my husband is going to help, which makes me quite a bit more confident.

Thanks again!

My AM coffee is still kicking in so I did not go over your numbers carefully to make sure you're making the best use of material, etc. But I do have some comments.

>>The side panels are on the outside of the structure, with the top panel, cage floors, and back panel built inside that for structural strength.

That's how I build mine. I also have the upper and lower lips between the sides. You should do that too.

>>I wish I could find something less obtrusive than the 1"x1" boards...

For my Bearded Dragon's false-ceiling I found a wood at Lowes that was listed at 3/4"x3/4". In realiity it was more like 11/16"x11/16".

>> ...because they are visible from the glass doors.

My false ceilings run from the back panel to the bottom of the upper lip. The upper glass track acts as a visual barrier and you really have to look for it.

>>I would have used ¾” melamine sheeting, but some have stated that melamine gives off formaldehyde gas when heated.

As would MDF. Either product is going to offgas a bit. If fact when I cut MDF I tend to get a slight headache, especially if I don't let it sit in my garage for a week or so to offgass. I've never had that problem with melamine.

MDF is heavier than melamine and does not hold screws as well. Still a good product, especially for the cost.

>>A 4” high false ceiling is employed above each cage to prevent contact between the snake and the heating and lighting elements

Are you sure this will be enough? My lowest false-ceiling is 5.25"... six inches minus the thickness of the frame where the screen attaches). It's for a bearded dragon and it's very hard to find mercury vapor bulbs and heat lamps that will fit. The wood was leftover from another project so I was stuck with that depth but I do regret it now.

I know you said you'll be using flexwatt but having it conduct heat through 5/8" MDF is not efficient at all.

>>The false ceiling would extend 4” above the screen floor, and would accommodate one 24” fluorescent tube and lengths of flexwatt (or similar heating method), top-mounted on the true ceiling above the screen. Unlike the finished back wall of the actual cage areas, there is no back wall for the false ceiling, allowing for adequate ventilation and simple wiring.
>>
>>III. Raised Floor.
>>
>>Another 4” must be accommodated for beneath the floor panel of the actual cage. This 4” allows for the use of rolling casters.

Casters tall enough to stick out beyond this 4" area will be expensive. I used 2" casters for a similar cage and they worked fine. 3" might be idea, in which case the floor should only be raised about 2.75".

>>So here's my questions! Will the screen false ceilings, combined with the open backs directly above, provide enough ventilation?

Possibly too much! But it's easy to go back and cover parts of the false-ceiling area if you're having trouble.

>>Secondly, the three baby cages on the top of the enclosure are a very strange size - basically, a 15 gallon tank with its short side forward. What kind of doors would you recommend for the front? Obviously sliding doors won't work. I'd also like to add side or back access to these cages, because cleaning them and retrieving the snake inside could be difficult. Any ideas on how to do this?

I'll have to think about this.

>>Finally, I need a way to easily access the fluorescent lights and heat elements, which are mounted on the underside of the floors of each cage. Any ideas?

I thought you were going to have a 4" open area all along the back-top of each cage? This should be enough.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Chris,

Thank you so much for replying!

As would MDF. Either product is going to offgas a bit. If fact when I cut MDF I tend to get a slight headache, especially if I don't let it sit in my garage for a week or so to offgass. I've never had that problem with melamine.

MDF is heavier than melamine and does not hold screws as well. Still a good product, especially for the cost.

So, would you recommend MDF or white melamine? I'm not sure which is the safest material for the snakes... the lighter weight of melamine is pretty appealing, though.

Are you sure this will be enough? My lowest false-ceiling is 5.25"... six inches minus the thickness of the frame where the screen attaches). It's for a bearded dragon and it's very hard to find mercury vapor bulbs and heat lamps that will fit.

I'm planning on using T8 fluorescent tubes, which are 1" in diameter. Maybe I'll up the height of the false ceilings by about an inch or so. I'll lower the height of the area housing the casters, and that should compensate some.

I thought you were going to have a 4" open area all along the back-top of each cage? This should be enough.

I was just a little worried that 4" wouldn't be enough clearance for my hand to get inside and unscrew the bulbs and replace them (I was going to mount them to the underside of the floors with mounting clips/brackets). But you're right, it should be just fine.

I know you said you'll be using flexwatt but having it conduct heat through 5/8" MDF is not efficient at all.

What would you recommend for heating? Flexwatt, heat rope, heat tape, commercial heating pads, etc.? Would 3/4" melamine be better if the heating elements are mounted on the underside?

To answer your species question, I'm building this cage as a multipurpose unit to save space (I live in an apartment), so I want to house a few different species in it.

One of the display cages is designated for an adult ball python, and the second display cage could house another medium-sized terrestrial snake (I've been thinking a Texas ratsnake). The baby cages were added to make housing the young snakes easier until they're old enough to live in the display housing. In addition, it allows me to expand my collection easily when I buy a new hatchling - they can stay in one of the baby cages until an appropriate larger cage is built. So in the end, I'd like this set up: Adult ball python and leucy ratsnake in display cages, baby cages open as temporary housing for new additions.

Thanks again for replying!

>>So, would you recommend MDF or white melamine? I'm not sure which is the safest material for the snakes... the lighter weight of melamine is pretty appealing, though.

Melamine is lighter but not light by any means. It's still close to 100 lbs. per sheet. 94 lbs. I believe.

If you're on a budget and this is your first cage building attempt I think melamine might be slightly easier to work with and give a more finished look to the exterior.

I'd still use contact paper on the interior although it's not absolutely necessary for Ball Pythons or Texas Ratsnakes. Maybe just on the floor for small water spills.

>>I'm planning on using T8 fluorescent tubes, which are 1" in diameter.

What is the length? I like to leave just a bit more length to fit the bulbs/fixtures in. So if the bulbs are 36" long, you'll want the cage to be longer than that.

I'd leave enough room to mount regular household incandescents horizontally. I believe you are going to have heating issues with this cage with this much ventilation. Leave enough room to mount an electrical box on the upper side of each cage.

In fact, if this is for snakes, skip the T-8 buls altogether and just mount a few electrical boxes in each false-ceiling. Some can hold the spiral-twist flourescents, others can house low-wattage heat bulbs.

>>What would you recommend for heating? Flexwatt, heat rope, heat tape, commercial heating pads, etc.? Would 3/4" melamine be better if the heating elements are mounted on the underside?

Melamine won't be any better than MDF. I would cut a large rectangle out of each floor. Something about 2" longer and wider than the flexwatt panel you'll use. *DON'T* have the rectangular opening come within 2" of the cage sides.

Then cover the entire floor with 1/4" Sintra, a type of plastic available from sign shops. Sintra, or expanded PVC, is an excellent conductor of heat and will add a lot of therm mass to the cage. It also makes for a very easy to clean surface.

Your flexwatt or heat pads can be taped to the underside of the Plastic floor.

This works very well.

My only other advice is to skip the baby area. I think the door's, cleaning, etc. will be more trouble than it's worth. And babies often feel stressed in such open cages.

For a compromise instead built a compartment for housing the babies in small plastic containers.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks again for all your help!

If you're on a budget and this is your first cage building attempt I think melamine might be slightly easier to work with and give a more finished look to the exterior.

Can you give me a price estimate for the melamine? I priced the MDF at about $20-25 per 4'x8' sheet. I'm definitely on a budget, and I'm looking to spend around $300-350 max for the whole setup, including lighting and heating. Cage decor isn't factored in, and I'll deal with that case by case.

I'd still use contact paper on the interior although it's not absolutely necessary for Ball Pythons or Texas Ratsnakes. Maybe just on the floor for small water spills.

Right - the only reason I'm still using the contact paper is for flexibility reasons. If I want to house a higher-humidity species later on, the cages would be available. Plus, I think the black interior would look nice and bring out the colors of the animals inside.

What is the length? I like to leave just a bit more length to fit the bulbs/fixtures in. So if the bulbs are 36" long, you'll want the cage to be longer than that.

I was planning on using 24" fluorescent tubes. I've seen short bulbs used on aquariums before, and I like the "spotlight" effect that it gives.

I'd leave enough room to mount regular household incandescents horizontally. I believe you are going to have heating issues with this cage with this much ventilation. Leave enough room to mount an electrical box on the upper side of each cage.

OK, I'll look into that. I figured I might have some heating or humidity problems.. I can always cover part of the open back sections, correct? Would this remedy most of the problem? Perhaps I can have a hinged back flap or something to allow for access during maintenance, but keep humidity and heat inside most of the time.

Melamine won't be any better than MDF. I would cut a large rectangle out of each floor. Something about 2" longer and wider than the flexwatt panel you'll use. *DON'T* have the rectangular opening come within 2" of the cage sides.

So you're saying to cut the rectangle all the way through, correct?

Then cover the entire floor with 1/4" Sintra, a type of plastic available from sign shops.

OK, I'm going to assume that I cut the rectangle mentioned above all the way through: Sintra is hard/strong enough to support the snake in that spot where there's no MDF/melamine underneath, correct?

Any idea where can I buy Sintra, perhaps online? I don't know of any sign shops in my area.

For a compromise instead built a compartment for housing the babies in small plastic containers.

Perhaps I'll do that. Thanks!

Just a couple more questions. I've been getting conflicting opinions on glass thickness, tempered vs. not tempered. Do you have an opinion on this?

Second, what about thermostats/rheostats? What's the most reliable but cost-efficient way to control the heating elements? I've looked into proportional thermostats, but at $100 each, they're a bit pricey, especially in this setup, which would need multiple thermostats.

Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it!

>>Can you give me a price estimate for the melamine?

$28 per sheet from home-improvement centers.

If you're on that strict of a budget you might consider getting away from the false ceiling. Maybe just use flexwatt under an expanded PVC floor and some rope light ran through the top for supplemental light. You can modify the cages for lizards when you have more money and ready to get into them. By then you might be ready for another set of cages anyways.

>>I was planning on using 24" fluorescent tubes.

Again, for cost reasons maybe stay away from these for now. The snakes don't need them, might even be stressed by them.

>>OK, I'll look into that. I figured I might have some heating or humidity problems.. I can always cover part of the open back sections, correct?

Yes, but I'm starting to think you'd be better off getting away from this design. Don't get me wrong, I use it myself and love it, but it does add cost.

>>So you're saying to cut the rectangle all the way through, correct?

Yes.

>>Sintra is hard/strong enough to support the snake in that spot where there's no MDF/melamine underneath, correct?

Yes, it's what many cage companies use to build individual, stacking cages. You could probably even use 1/8" but 1/4" is probably safer.

>>Any idea where can I buy Sintra, perhaps online? I don't know of any sign shops in my area.

Online will be expensive. Try the phone book for plastic distributors and then sign shops. I've never had a problem finding it - even in small towns.

>>Just a couple more questions. I've been getting conflicting opinions on glass thickness, tempered vs. not tempered. Do you have an opinion on this?

Those posts have been confusing. For the species and cage size your are using 1/8", double-strength glass is fine.

However, the 1/4" glass track is 3/4" wide and will do a nice job of covering the lip of the cage. In that case regular, 1/4" plate glass is fine and not much more expensive.

You do not need tempered glass.

Regarding heating:

I think more people should look into Ultratherm heat pads controlled by rheostats. Yes, the ultratherms are more expensive than flexwatt but they are also safer. In the case of a rheostat meltdown they would never get dangerously hot. You really don't need an expensive thermostat with them.

They are sealed very well so you could skip the false ceiling and on the rare occasion the snake came in contact with them there would be no chance of shock. I say this assuming you'll use the floor-cutout/PVC floor design.

Combined with light-rope for accent light I'm sure you could heat the cage quite well. Especially if you back away from the false-ceiling design.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks again!!

If you're on that strict of a budget you might consider getting away from the false ceiling.

I really like the false ceiling design and I'd like to stick with it, so if it means spending a bit more, I'm open to it. Thanks for letting me know about the potential cost, though.

I think more people should look into Ultratherm heat pads controlled by rheostats. Yes, the ultratherms are more expensive than flexwatt but they are also safer.

I really like the Ultratherms; I saw them at Bean Farm. What size would you recommend for the 36"x24" cages? 11"x11" or 11"x17", or smaller?

About rheostats/thermostats, can you recommend a specific brand and where to get it? A link to an online catalog page would be fine. I really don't know too much about the thermostat and rheostat choices.

Thanks again for all your help! Your suggestions have saved me plenty of headache down the road. Thanks!!!

>>I really like the Ultratherms; I saw them at Bean Farm. What size would you recommend for the 36"x24" cages? 11"x11" or 11"x17", or smaller?

I am far from being the heating/electronics expert on this forum. If you go with the FC design then you'll almost certainly have to use something other than belly heat. I suppose the safe choice is to cut a 13" x 19" rectangle through the floor so you can use either. If you have babies you'll always have a need for the smaller one. Start there and work your way up.

>>About rheostats/thermostats, can you recommend a specific brand and where to get it?

Not really. I've not purcased a rheostat/thermostat in years.

Probably worth starting a new thread on rheostats/thermostats.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Reptile_Supplies/Product/Electronic_BAH1000_Thermostat_924105.html

I have 2 of these (one is running a 6 tub rack and the other is running a 4x2x1 and 6x2x2 enclosures)

Later
-----
Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com