Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I have never owned a snake before, and have been contemplating on buying one. I have owned many lizards, even some of the rarer ones, and some of the larger ones, and I am ready to THINK about buying a snake. I dont know much about the different kinds of snakes, but, I know I would prefer one of the smaller snakes. Im not into the garter snake though. What smaller snake would you sugest to a newby, and how large does it get? Thanks.

CHARACTERISTICS: California kings are generally good-natured snakes. They can be somewhat nervous, and jumpy, particularly when young. However, they will rarely strike unless cornered. Cal kings are medium-sized non-venomous snakes that subdue and kill their prey by constriction. They are mainly nocturnal snakes, preferring to be most active at dusk and early evening. Many say that they're more diurnal since they remain fairly active throughout the day. I would agree with this since my male is quite active in the daytime, and quiets down at night but remains fairly active. California kings make great first snakes, yet they come with one small "black mark" on their record. They're very food-oriented, and may strike out at the keeper in anticipation of food. Don't let this faze you from getting one, they're great snakes and I've been bitten by much bigger snakes twice the length and about 30 pounds heavier and paper cuts are more painful.
DESCRIPTION & LIFE SPAN: Normal Cal kings come in different phases based on locality. Desert phases have a black background with thin white banding. Coastal phases are chocolate-colored with banana-colored bands. Even among normal phases, there are variations in in their patterning and amount of color. Due to large breeding volumes in captivity, California kingsnakes come in many sorts of colors and patterns. Cal kings are slender-bodied snakes which average 4-5' in length, with males often reaching the higher end of the spectrum than females. 6' male Cal kings have been seen in the wild and in collections. Under optimal conditions, Cal kings can live at least 15-20 years in captivity.
DIFFICULTY: California kings are easy-to-keep snakes that are forgiving in keeper mistakes. Many agree that Cal kings are one of the best choices for beginning reptile/snake keepers. However, Cal kings are escape artists, as are most snakes. So, be sure to have a cage w/ securely-locking doors or lid. Other than heat, California kingsnakes, as the name implies are from California and surrounding states. So, they can live almost anywhere in the U.S. without drastic changes in the climate in their cage.

What do you consider small (what's the max length you want to deal with)? Do you have space constraints that limit you to a certain size cage?
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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
1.0 San Felipe Rosy Boa "Legalos"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
0.1 Okeetee Corn snake "Amazon"
0.0.1 Crested Gecko
0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"

I would have to be honest and suggest a Corn Snake over the Cali King. While Cali Kings are generally good choice for a first snake they can be rather tempermental some times. Most Cali Kings do tame down rather nicely but the Corn Snake is the best first snake because they have a better temperment.

Corn snakes are the most popular snake in the pet trade. There are many different colors/morphs of this snake so you will definately find a pattern/color that you like.

Corns are very forgiving in their enviorments also.They average around 3 1/2 - 5 feet in length. There are dozens of articles on the internet regarding corn snakes. Why don't you check out this species?
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Reptiles
0.1 - Early 2002 Anery Motley Corn 33 1/2"
1.0 - Late 2003 Yellow Rat Snake 15 2/3"
0.0.1 - 2003 Banded California King Snake 29 2/3"
1.0 Green Anole
0.0.0 House Gecko
0.1 Painted Turtle

Mammals
4 female ferrets,1 male cat and 1 male doberman...and a few kids!

RIP - Nala my Rottie 08/19/2004

vv

I think the corn snake is about the best first snake around. Most people in the hobby agree. If you get a young snake they are very inexpensive and most are docile. They are easy to feed and do not require special climate and space requirements. They are also ready available. They are not prone to illness and later on if you decide to breed they are one of the most easy to breed snakes in captivity. Good luck with what ever you decide.
Chuck

I am going to agree with the corn snake idea. I really like ALL of the North American Ratsnakes, including the corns. As for wanting a small snake, keep in mind when you are comparing lengths that a 4 foot cornsnake is a much smaller animal than, for example, a 4 foot ball python. They are much thinner and this really makes a difference. Check out the corn forum for all kinds of cool colors. Duffy

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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
1.0 San Felipe Rosy Boa "Legalos"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
0.1 Okeetee Corn snake "Amazon"
0.0.1 Crested Gecko
0.0.1 Irian Jaya BlueTongued Skink
0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer "Kira"

As several people have mentioned, it depends on what you consider a "small" snake. Here are a few suggestions....

Cornsnake - can't go wrong here - big adults get to 4 feet.

Cal King - others have suggested this. I don't think they are the best first snake, as they tend to be a little nippy as babies. Some can reach 5-6 feet.

My problem with these two species is that they are everyone's first snake. Why not look at some of the other, slightly less common candidates which are at least as good (if not better) as a first snake?

Baird's Ratsnake - I think this species may be one of the best of all starter snakes. They are stunning to look at, easy to keep and the babies are big (like 15 inches - twice the size of a cornsnake baby) and easy to feed. The adults reach about the same size as a cornsnake. Babies aren't all that stunning, but the adults have a subtle beauty that few others snakes can rival, IMHO. They are also a little unique. Not everyone has a bairdi! Take a look at the ratsnake forum, there are always pics of people's bairds there.

Rosy Boa - small, even tempered, very handleable, easy to keep. Most rosies never exceed 3 feet. Come in a variety of colors, some of which are quite beautiful.

I have attached an Excel chart I made a while ago ranking good first snakes based on a series of criteria.

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Chris Harrison

Chris your excell sheet quite impressive, But i wish you had one of my favorite boas on the chart. Dumerils boa. They make a great first
snake for anyone who wants a large snake. Without some of the problems of some of the other big snakes.
Chuck

I'm not sure why/how I left off Dumeril's Boa. They have long been a favorite of mine and I kept them for years.

However, due to their size and cost of feeding, I think they wouldn't make the top five, but they probably could get into the top ten. I will have to factor them in.
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Chris Harrison

and the rat snake didnt? I would think the rat snake should make the top 10 easily, possibly even the top 5!! Especially seeing that the black rat is the largest of the obsoleta complex. The rest are all smaller than the black rat and you cant beat them for their hardiness, they NEVER turn down a meal, and most arent nippy as hatchlings. Then as adults, they are really laid back and easy going. (There is always that one exception that is just EVIL incarnate!) LOL.

Not to mention all the very nice looking natural colorations of the obsoleta complex, and lots of morphs are popping up too!

I was surprised.
Brian
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

I tried to be as objective as possible in making the list. I have actually changed my scoring system and reformed it and this time the gartersnake came out below the ratsnake. I think last time, I had size affect the overall score too much.

It is interesting how easily one value can skew the data depending on how you score it. When I remove the effect of overall size, it changes the ranking noticeably.

To be honest, I'm not sure which I am more comfortable with. Checkered Garters are easygoing snakes that make great first pets. The risk of bites is much lower and they are cheaper to house and feed than obsoleta.

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Chris Harrison

to 25th!!! That is pretty wild how just one small part of data will have such a large coverall change in the outcome.

Pretty cool data chart regardless!!
Brian

>>I tried to be as objective as possible in making the list. I have actually changed my scoring system and reformed it and this time the gartersnake came out below the ratsnake. I think last time, I had size affect the overall score too much.
>>
>>It is interesting how easily one value can skew the data depending on how you score it. When I remove the effect of overall size, it changes the ranking noticeably.
>>
>>To be honest, I'm not sure which I am more comfortable with. Checkered Garters are easygoing snakes that make great first pets. The risk of bites is much lower and they are cheaper to house and feed than obsoleta.
>>
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>>Chris Harrison
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Hi,
That's a cool chart. However, given that you state that it is a first snake chart, I don't think enough weight is given to the two "large" snakes in your category. ie. only 3 points or less difference between the Burm and the Anteresia. Given that the Burm (3 points for size) should ideally be handled by 2 people when it is an adult, and the Children's/Spotted, though flighty/nippy (4 points for juvie temperment), are still "harmless" (as a juvie) even if they bite you all day long. Also, I think housing and feed requirements should spread them further apart. As for the Retic, I wouldn't even consider it at all.
I hope you don't think I'm being nitpicky, as I think it is a very useful chart you've come up with, and only make my observation, because you've said it is for a first snake.
John

n/p

np
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Current Collection:
0.1 Antherystic elaphe guttata guttata - Corn Snake
1.0 Elaphe vulpina gloydi - Eastern Fox Snake
0.1 Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta - Black Rat Snake
0.1 Leucistic elaphe obsoleta linheimeri - Texas Ratsnake
1.1 Morelia spilota cheyni - Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Tiliqua scincoides intermedia - Northern Blue Tongue Skink

Thanks for all the info, and that is quite an impressive excel sheet. After doing a little more research, I think Im going to look into the Rosy boa a little more. I've read that The males rarely exceed 2.5 feet, they come in nice looking colors, and from what I have read they seem to be a fairly good beginner snake. Unfortunately, I dont know enough about them yet to get one at the reptile expo Im going to tommorow though. Not that that was my plan anyways. Oh well. Thanks.
P.S. I have read that an adult rosy boa will fit in a 10 gallon tank, but, that seems WAY too little to me. What size tank do you suggest for an adult?

A 2.5 Rosy "could" live in a 10 gallon, but it is best to give them more room. A 24''-36'' long x 10'' high x 12'' deep are just about perfect for rosy boas.

I've worked with them but never have actually owned one, but they were very nice little snakes.

Depending on where you live, http://rosyboas.tripod.com is a pretty nice little site of a friend of mine. He does alot with specific locality rosy boas, which is pretty cool.
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Current Collection:
0.1 Antherystic elaphe guttata guttata - Corn Snake
1.0 Elaphe vulpina gloydi - Eastern Fox Snake
0.1 Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta - Black Rat Snake
0.1 Leucistic elaphe obsoleta linheimeri - Texas Ratsnake
1.1 Morelia spilota cheyni - Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Tiliqua scincoides intermedia - Northern Blue Tongue Skink

Agree with Chris on the Bairdi. This is a little guy thats got a bit of an attitude..not enough to bite you (under normal conditions) but he'll rattle his tail and I just think mine are really interesting.

Here's a picture of a baby

and here's the same snake as an adult

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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

A fool doesn't learn. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which one are you?

My Website
Rat/Corn snake care sheet I wrote

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat (Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)
0.1 Blue Beauty (Brunhilde)

Corn snakes definately rank up there in best starting snakes.
Hardy, calm, many many many morphs/patterns, availibility, you name it.
They are my favorite snake.

But next i want a ball python, so they may have competition.

I love discussions like this. It is so subjective!!!!!! Rosy keepers are high on their snakes but have to be concerned about the "H" word-humidity! Get it too damp and the little guys will get an infection in a minute. I know from experience. Most of my collection is made up of Pits. I have Bulls that are mostly attitude, never know when I might get tagged. My pair of Pacific Gophers nail me whenever I open the cage, yet other Pacifics I've had were quite docile and never bit. My Northern Pines and Black Pines both hiss like steam hoses but never bite. I get tagged at least once a day by one of my Sonoran Gophers. I have a few getula Kings. The '04 Mex. Blks squirt me everytime and I hate musk. The brooksi, on the other hand, never squirt or bite defensively. But if I handle them with any scent of another snake on me, well, I have a three yr. old female that has tried to eat my thumb 5 times!!! Chris, I love your chart and no matter how many people you ask, you'll get that many opinions. That is what's so great about our hobby! Something for everyone. Stick to the top ten-fifteen on the chart and you will probably do OK. Just make sure you get your snake from a reputable breeder, that it is captive bred, and healthy and you should be successful. Have fun!!!!

Pat Glazener-Cooney