Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are a couple of photos of NeLiSh, my clockwork (at least so far) monitor. For the past two springs she has cycled exactly two weeks, to the day, after her first meal coming out of winter. This year is no exception. I started warming the pair up almost three weeks ago and started feeding them a little over two weeks ago. Two days ago (exactly two weeks after her first meal of spring) she refused food - wouldn't even flick her tongue at it. That evening, when I came home from work, she was still out of her log and lying around like this.

The other clockwork thing about her is that on most nights in spring or summer (cycling and mating times the significant exceptions) she heads for her log a few minutes before the basking lights switch off. This photo was taken at 8pm, a couple of hours after the basking lights were switched off (there are only flourecent ambient lights on at the time the photo was taken).

Last night, out again.

This morning, she refused another meal. I suspect they'll start mating tomorrow, so hopefully I'll get some shots of that.

SHvar keeps telling everyone that wintering doesn't trigger mating. He's right, it doesn't, but warming them up after wintering sure as heck does

A disclaimer (very important on this forum): Before everyone starts an internet screaming match about the pros and cons of wintering monitors, I'm not saying that it is necessary to cool them to breed them (it isn't), nor am I saying that it is necessary to cool them at all (it's up to the individual keeper). It's something I happen to do - so don't feel the need to try this at home.

I noted this year in my collection and in 2 good friends collections there is one of many albigs that went underground for almost a week so far, but that animal is completely active, eats, craps, burns it off, just less active, and underground, yet the others are doing normal activities like they do all year around. That one animal has disappeared underground at a different time of year already for a short time one other time a year ago for a week or so straight.
That one animal that is doing this is Sobek, Ive upped the temps, and keep feeding her consistantly as normal, she burns it off. I think its just her choice to relax for a while as they sometimes do, they sometimes disappear underground for days or a few weeks.
The warm temps rising, and available food trigger mating, right, thats at least proven. Whatever works for you do it, but make sure that its for their good not your ego.
have a nice day.

"...but make sure that its for their good not your ego."

I'd winter my monitors for my ego?

Are they kept indoors or out?

Do you winter them to help them or because someone says it needs done?

Are you wintering them because you choose to argue a point?

Im asking because you seem to bring my name up to make some point with your post. If it works for them then by all means do so, if they are living outdoors and conditions require them to, then by all means do so, but if the reason to winter them is none of the above and conditions dont require them to, why do it?
I read every year about people wintering reptiles of many many species, my experience with some good friends and their hugely diverse reptile collections as well my animals, and dealing with many people in the reptile industry is that people who brumate, hibernate, or winter their reptiles in captivity especially indoors is purely to save money on food, or because they believe it is a magic breeding switch and will fix all of their basic husbandry problems by doing so. One of my favorites is bearded dragons and those who winter them, keep them on shelf liners, sterile environments, etc etc, and they have little skinny, dehydrated dragons that need soaked constantly, and have so many health problems, yet my maintance free dragons have layed 7 clutches in 7 months starting from the female being 10 months old, and she has grown over 2 inches in the process to a whopping 600 grams at still under 1.5 yrs old, I dont try to breed them, I feed them, check on them, and handle them.
Like I said if it works do it.

Clearly you missed this part of my post:

"A disclaimer (very important on this forum): Before everyone starts an internet screaming match about the pros and cons of wintering monitors, I'm not saying that it is necessary to cool them to breed them (it isn't), nor am I saying that it is necessary to cool them at all (it's up to the individual keeper). It's something I happen to do - so don't feel the need to try this at home."

I brought up your name because you frequently say that it doesn't lead to mating. I agree it isn't necessary to winter them to induce them to mate (see my above disclaimer), but clearly disagree on it not being a trigger.

If you choose to believe I winter my animals to save money, then that's your choice. You would completely fail to understand the real reasons I choose to winter them so I am not going to waste energy typing them out.

"If you choose to believe I winter my animals to save money, then that's your choice. You would completely fail to understand the real reasons I choose to winter them so I am not going to waste energy typing them out"

I never said you are trying to save money, where did I?

I asked you which reason you do so, the way to respond to that is to answer the question, not make it look as if you are upset by mud slinging. But since you got so offended and if the shoe fits wear it then.

I would completely fail to understand the reasons that you choose to, hmmm. I guess this whole post and response is ALL ABOUT YOUR EGO since it wasnt just coincidence my name came up nor that you seemed to post in a manner showing it more obvious, like it is too many times. If you care to stop being so immature about how you post in a conversation and take the time to explain maybe this wouldnt be the case.
After all the world isnt out to get you, I dont have time nor the inclination to have a pissing match over your ego, why cant it be about the monitors, and why yours winter, not about you getting upset and starting a fight so many times?
Im done with this, think about what I said, in the end I could care less what your reasons are because you make it a personal arguement everytime you respond, no matter if you are asked a simple question.

You seem to be the only person that makes a connection between ego and your reptile hobby here. You are also the only one of us that is obsessed with the size of your monitor/bearded dragons. Care for me to make the obvious connection?

The thing is, SHvar, you didn't just ask me why I winter my monitors. You squeezed that question in amongst a half dozen assumptions about why people winter their animals, including this one:

"and dealing with many people in the reptile industry is that people who brumate, hibernate, or winter their reptiles in captivity especially indoors is purely to save money on food, or because they believe it is a magic breeding switch and will fix all of their basic husbandry problems by doing so."

I have told many people why I winter my monitors, mostly in person or in chats on irc. You are one person I feel no need to explain anything to.

DK winter his monitors.

How do you turn this into insults no matter what? You turn it into insults, attitude, and a personal reason to fight. I asked a simple question, I guess you did make this about your ego and it only.

Here are some direct quotes from you:

"Do you winter them to help them or because someone says it needs done? "

"Are you wintering them because you choose to argue a point?"

"...many people in the reptile industry is that people who brumate, hibernate, or winter their reptiles in captivity especially indoors is purely to save money on food, or because they believe it is a magic breeding switch and will fix all of their basic husbandry problems by doing so."

"...Whatever works for you do it, but make sure that its for their good not your ego."

And I'M the one with the ego and the attitude? You didn't just ask a simple question, you loaded the question with a pile of assumptions and accusations.

If you want to see an example of simply asking a question, have a look at rsg's post:

"Why do you winter your animals?"

Can you see the difference? It doesn't say 'do you winter them because someone tells you to?' or 'Do you winter them for your ego?'

The difference is, rsg will get an answer, via email. As I said in my first post, I didn't bring this up to start a debate on the pros and cons of wintering. I don't care if anyone else does or doesn't winter their animals. I choose to and that's my perogative.

I brought your name up in my first post because you've posted previously that wintering animals does not trigger mating. I was pointing out that, although it isn't necessary to winter them to have them mate, wintering sure can trigger mating. Once again, I specifically said that this wasn't an attempt to bring up an argument on the pros and cons of wintering. It's my choice to winter them, by all means don't try this at home.

Though I'm somewhat relieved to see I'm not the only one who has run into this...........
trend.

Apparently some people are never wrong, even when they are. And you can't question their beliefs unless you keep a record size monitor.

The best thing to do with this guy is shrug and walk away.

email on its way

"...and she has grown over 2 inches in the process to a whopping 600 grams at still under 1.5 yrs old..."

It's clear you have an obsession with how big you can get a reptile in a certain period of time. Not only Sobek, but now your little beardies as well. One thing I should make clear is that not everyone has the same drives/obsessions as you. You need to learn that if some of us practice different husbandry techniques from you, it doesn't mean they are 'wrong' or that the motives behind them are as cynical and nasty as you seem to think. You and I, for example, have very different goals and reasons for keeping monitors and look at our animals in entirely different ways. You keep them singly and want to turn them into housepets. I briefly considered doing that with my first monitor but soon decided this would be highly unsatisfying for both me and the monitor. I could never return to the 'postage stamp collection' mentality of some reptile hobbyists, keeping one of each species. You don't see me putting cynical reasons, for following that approach, that in your mouth, do you?

Why do you winter your animals?

Hi richard,

email on its way

hmmmm... can't email you from kingsnake. I'll email you from work on monday (don't have your email address at home).

Cheers,

David

1

congrats dave, just as you called it.... Let's get some pics of them copping..that would be cool.. I wish you the best of luck with them this year, and hope they produce some more beautiful offspring again... Cheers mate,

bob