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I purchased it as a normal hypo but it appears very "extremish" to me.

Sorry about the bad pic's . I was in a hurry.

Bad lighting on the others.

seriously though, I don't think it is but it is close. The flash can also make them look lighter. I have seen several hondurans that are more gray than black, but yet aren't quite extreme, and I would say yours falls into that category. I have an adult male that is like that. They seem to tip less than the black ones too.

looks nice...might be...can you get an outdoor shot of it's head?
btw, who was the breeder, that might help...

now don't go crossing that with a pueblan

Naww, the pueblin thing has been done already.

I am not so sure this type of hypo (EXTREME)is a true reccesive. I think a extreme to extreme will not produce all extremes. It will produce all hypos and some extremes, but not ALL extremes. I hope I am wrong on this. Time will tell.

There is a lot of varience with hondurans and I beleive this is on the other end of the hypo spectrum. Maybe not as red or not as reduced black, but still an extreme. I mean the only real difference that makes an extreme an extreme is the lightened black causing a more hypo look. The other traits do not make an extreme an extreme. At least from what I have seen. But you guys are the experts..Terry, Shannon what do you think?

I can't believe you've forced me to say this, but:

Yes, I agree with everything you said.

There. Now that that is out of the way...

Seriously, the first time i read your post immediately above i re-read it to make sure it wasn't my post. You and i are hypothesizing the same way on this issue, which means we'll either prove to be really smart or really...well, you know.

I think your snake looked like an extreme to me, in the flash pictures, and less certainly so in the daylight photo. IF our speculation that extreme is a point on a continum, or one end of a continuum, then yours would be well along its way on that sliding scale. All the way to the end? Hard to say.

Also, regarding terminology, IF extreme proves to be not a recessive trait but some sort of extreme end of a natural continuum, can we give it a simple label? I mean, if it's something that say on a 1-10 scale, everyone can agree on the 10s, there sure as shootin' will be disagreement on some 8s and 9s. It would be a situation like the one with tangerine and tricolor hondos and all those animals that are in between. Anyone who's seen some of the "tangerine albino" ads on kingsnake knows some people are going to call some 5s extremes, just as they do with some albinos that are actually about halfway between a tangerine 10 and a tricolor 10.

Of course, we'll have to take Jeff T out behind the woodpile for a lickin' because of the hybrid suggestion (I know you were kidding, jeff) but otherwise your post was good, and so's the snake.

peace
terry

Hey,
Thats how I feel about the extreme hypos, they are at the best hypos can get.And yes,I think the best looking hypos-(extremes) can have a lable on them as a name, like "extreme hypos", but as you say, there will be those 5's and 6's that some will call extremes. In rainers first pics it looked like one forsure, then the next pics you can tell the bands are darker towrads the part of the body in rainers hand. I have the same thing happen when taking pics of hypos, sometimes they come out looking like super extremes, but they arent at all, you just got to get the right light and angle to get pics of hypos where they look like they do in person. Anyways, it will be interesting to see if the extreme look in hypos will be tooken even farther up the scale, to me it seems any further would just result in albinos...?
jeff teel

Hi,
I'd say without a doubt its an extreme for sure. Check outt he dark bands, the look like albinos alomst, thts what i thought the first time I saw pics of kevin hanleys back in the day, it looked like an albino cause of the dark bands being almost white, like yours. Congrats ranier, that thing is awesome looking. Gonna breed it x some cal.kings or brooksi morphs..?,LOL, just kiddin man, thanks for the pics, thats a nice snake.
jeff teel