Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Quick question for the folks here who use a gravity-fed watering system for their rat/mouse racks. I am interested in switching my water bottles to a watering system ala agselect. Little background: I have a rack which consists of 5 bins, each on it's own level, rack is approx. 22 inches wide, 34 inches deep and maybe 70 inches tall. I'll be using 10 vari-flo valves, (2 per level) and approx. 25-30 feet of 3/16" hosing. Now the question: it's mentioned that the water storage tank be 12-36" over the highest point of the system to ensure proper gravity flow for the water. I'm setting this system up in my snake room (basement bedroom), where the existing rack calls home, and I simply don't have that much height clearance over my rack. Will the system still flow well enough for the specs I quoted if less than 12" over the top rack? Thanks in advance.

mine works fine with about 4 inches of height above the cage. had no problems with it at all

Peter
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Peter and Sara
Beouf River Reptiles

My buckets (7 of them feeding 287 pans) are just a couple inches above the top water valve. I have no problems. The end of the Vari-Flo valve can be turned to adjust the water drip. I have noticed more pressure (faster flow) with the buckets higher, but the valves work perfectly with the buckets down low......as long as the top water line is higher than the tubing and valves.
Note: The valves can sometimes get clogged with gook so check the drip at each pan change. They are very easy to clean if needed. Also, the screen in the tank connector can sometimes get clogged....reducing the flow. Just basic maintenance.....but only on occasion. Once you switch to valves, you'll wonder why you waited so long.

>>mine works fine with about 4 inches of height above the cage. had no problems with it at all
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>>Peter
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>>Peter and Sara
>>Beouf River Reptiles

vanilla to keep down odor and is this why your valves get gooped up, or are they getting gooped up without the vanilla? I ask because... I've been using imatation vanilla (one tablespoon per gallon) for almost two years now and it does wonders. I do get the goop in the valves though, and I don't mind really as long as the odor is controlled. But I've heard that some people will not use vanilla because of the goop, so if you're getting goop without using the vanilla then perhaps those who chose not to use vanilla because of the goop will now decide use it. Pheeew. Please don't ask me to repeat that.

MissHisssss

I have used the imitation vanilla.......but not for several years. I have read that the real vanilla will clog the valves but the imitation stuff won't. I think the goop you're getting is not from the vanilla......it's probably the same goop I get....I just don't know what causes it. I just flush the lines out when I notice the flow beginning to slow.
I stopped using the vanilla because it seemed to reduce my production. It does work quite well at reducing odor.

Tomsey

>>vanilla to keep down odor and is this why your valves get gooped up, or are they getting gooped up without the vanilla? I ask because... I've been using imatation vanilla (one tablespoon per gallon) for almost two years now and it does wonders. I do get the goop in the valves though, and I don't mind really as long as the odor is controlled. But I've heard that some people will not use vanilla because of the goop, so if you're getting goop without using the vanilla then perhaps those who chose not to use vanilla because of the goop will now decide use it. Pheeew. Please don't ask me to repeat that.
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>>MissHisssss

I hadn't heard that the imatation vanilla won't cause goop, but I did hear that it works better than the pure vanilla as far as the odor. It's CHEAPER too. I hadn't noticed a drop in production with using it... although there are times when my production drops due to other factors (temps, age, genes, etc). Ya never know though, using the vanilla could have had something to do with it. I guess I should do a test, but how will I know for sure that it's because I'm not using the vanilla if my production picks up, or if it's because of temps, age, genes, etc.

Thanks for your answer and perhaps it will convince others to use it that have been reluctant to use it

MissHisssss

I did an experiment and used vanilla and the goop is bacteria when the mice drink and some of the stuff that gets back washed at the site turns slimey, algea if you would, i wonder if adding bleach accordingly in a bottle with vanilla but not fed to the mice will eliminate this goop? ANy volunteers for testing and sharing the results?
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My roomates are2 boas, 4 corns,Rotti,3cats and snake food AKA the food chain.

The measurement is from the bottom of the resevior to the valve. Possibly that gained you some inches. I used a sterlite shoe box, that saved me a couple more as compared to a bucket, because I was able to hang it closer to the ceiling. I was a little short of what they recommended also and had no trouble.

Why 2 vavles per bin? It's not really nesseccary and increases the chance of flooding.

DeMak

You're right DeMak......2 valves are not needed.
I have holding boxes for harvested weanlings where they sometimes stay to the age of 5-6 weeks (harvest at 18-21 days). I will keep 150 in one holding box...with just ONE VALVE. Yes, sometimes there will be 10 or so mice battling for the valve, but they eventually get their fill. I've done this for years with great success. I very, very rarely lose a weanling in the holding boxes and they grow strong and healthy. I see some of the "commercial" holding racks with 5 or 6 valves.......overkill in my opinion. I suppose if one valve gets clogged there are others as backup, but I check mine often and have no problems. The biggest problem is flooding, as DeMak mentioned, and with more valves you increase your chances. The stupid mice (and rats) will push pieces of the bedding up into the valve making the pin move to the side........and the water will drip and drip - eventually drowning them. In my 287 pan colony, I lose an AVERAGE of about one pan per month or month and a half....sometimes going several months w/o a loss.

Tomsey Bitago

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>>Why 2 vavles per bin? It's not really nesseccary and increases the chance of flooding.
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>>DeMak

I have actully installed a watering system that is not gravity fed but always has a fresh water source (i.e. city water) using the same concept, instead of a bucket, I use a "evaporative water line" straigt from the faucet. I put a cheap $4.50 pressure regulator in line and "waallaa" instant water. I had to be careful of the pressure so the "little guys" don't get a bath when they drink. I simply wanted to eliminate the "lifting" of a 5 gallon buck full of water high enough to cause a mess or worse slip and hit me in the head!! My 2 cents!

I love the idea of having a constant water flow except for one thing. If one of the valves starts leaking it will just keep going, whereas with a bucket, it will only flood with the amount of water in the bucket.....and then it's done. I worry about switching because of that.

Could you describe how you made the transition from the "source" line to the tubing leading to the water valves? I don't know what an evaporative water line is.....maybe that's why I can't picture the transition. Speaking of pics.......would you be able to post one showing the water system detail?
Thanks.

Tomsey Bitago

>>I have actully installed a watering system that is not gravity fed but always has a fresh water source (i.e. city water) using the same concept, instead of a bucket, I use a "evaporative water line" straigt from the faucet. I put a cheap $4.50 pressure regulator in line and "waallaa" instant water. I had to be careful of the pressure so the "little guys" don't get a bath when they drink. I simply wanted to eliminate the "lifting" of a 5 gallon buck full of water high enough to cause a mess or worse slip and hit me in the head!! My 2 cents!

Well it looks like I can only post one pic at a time. I was concerned about a faulty valve and water constantly draining intot he "race tub". I figured even if I had a 5 gallon container and only (1) valve went faulty it would flood that "tub" anyway. Yes it would constantly run, but under the pressure of less than 5 PSI it would be no worse than a "fast leaking faucet". My way may not be correct, but after some trial and error it has become efficent for me. I'll give a brief description to each pic.

WS1 is simply a pic of the "faucet" set-up. It is a standard "outdoor" water hose faucet with an 1/8" FNPT port for an "evaporative cooler" water line (evaporative line is short for a 1/4" tubing line that runs off an outdoor faucet to an evaporative air conditioner from a compression fitted needle valve).

WS2 is the same faucet, but a better angle.

WS3 is the line going up into the house.

WS4 is the regulator assembly. The 1/4" black tube goes to the inlet on the regulator (by way of 1/4" John Guest style X 1/4" MNPT fitting - this fitting is used simply by pushing the tubing into the tube side of the fitting where it locks tightl into place and being removed by pressing "in" the grey collar and pulling the tubing to release). Notice this fitting also swivels so the tube line can rotate 360 deg. around the regulator inlet (could come in handy to move unit up or down). The gauge on the front of the regulator is used to monitor the pressure and shows a pressure of only 2 PSIG which I have found works well. The yellow knob on top is used to adjust pressure. Also, it makes it very easy to put in a manifold assembly or "tee" fitting down stream to add new racks with a single small piece of tubing.

WS5 is a pic of the fitting used to transition from 1/4" tubing to 3/8" I.D. clear tube. It is not required but I had the clear 3/8" tubing and all the fittings to fit 3/8" I.D. clear tube before I came up with the idea of regulating the pressure. This fitting is a 1/4" compression fitting (the only thing I could find to make this transition) X "John Guest" style 3/8" I.D.

Here a pic of the rack completed.

WS7 different angle

Let me know if this helps or if you need further explanation.

could you maybe post some pics or just explain exactly what parts you used and how you made your watering system?
thanks