Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey hey,

I recently caught a couple new garters, two in which, happened to be a breeding pair of Eastern Garters. I was holding them today, and I noticed that each fo them rattled their tail when they seemed a bit stress, like a king snake would. I have two California King Snakes, and see them in the wild alot so I'm pretty sure what a stress/scared tail rattle is.

I am hoping that sometimes Garter Snakes can devlope this defense method, but one think I AM worried about, is it possibly being venomous. That sounds dumb, but here in Ukiah California, there was a colony of northwesterns garters, that developed small rattles, and venom. The conclusion was that they crossed with the western diamond back rattlers here. We have also foudn Gopher and King Snakes that have crossed with rattlers. So Please get back to me as soon as you can, thanks!

As far as there tail rattling the all do that even a hatchling captive bred corn snake. Now all though Garters give live birth it would be highly unlikely that they could cross with a western Diamond Back. In West Virginia growing up I heard rumors of Black Rat snakes crossing with Timber Rattlers.
One Lays eggs and the other gives live birth. There has never been any (credible or fake) evidence that this is possible and the rumor was thought to have come from multiple species hibernating together due to lack of hibernacula. When you see this and then you see a garter snake mating ball and there is a lack of info ?

Quite a few of my Garters “rattle” though it is a bit less pronounced than in Rattlesnakes, Gopher snakes, King Snakes etc. With Garters it is more of a definitive twitching than a vibrating, and it often involves a greater length of the tail/lower body.

As for cross breeding between Rattlesnakes and Garter, Gopher and Kings, it is strictly urban legend at best. I once had a guy tell me that blue tailed skinks had blue tails because they were interbreeding with Rattlesnakes.

Taxonomy info: You do not have the Western Diamondbacks in your area. The farthest north they range is the extreme southern tip of Nevada. I have been fortunate enough to see one. The only Rattlesnake in your area is the Northern Pacific, Crotalus viridis oreganus.

Randy
-----
Firehouse Herps

Um...We have Western Diamond backs....lol. Btu eyha I'm pretty sure because at the lake, in the fish and wildlife center they have 1 of each native species here. We have Timber Rattlers and Western Diamond Backs. We also get Gophers, Cali King, Cali Mountain Kings, CA Red-Sided Garters, Rough Green Snakes, a greyish brown color snake, and 2 other kinds of garters. I want to go back up there and see them other 2 but it's a rough drive. One of the garters was all black with really blue stripes, and the other was all black with green stripes, the one with the green striped looked very similar to a Western Ribbon Snake. I'mnot sure if it was. I once saw a Western Terrestrial Garter Snake when m ymom was mowing the other year, btu apparantly they are'nt native here.

All garters have a mild venom in small amounts. They have no real injection system and the venom is not dangerous to humans. Also, rattlesnakes and garters cannot breed. It takes tricks to breed a kingsnake and a ratsnake, and these are in the same subfamily. Western Diamondbacks are in the Family Crotalidae and garters are in the Family Colubridae. As far as snakes go they're about as unrelated as they get. lol.
-----
0.0.1 San Luis Potosi Kingsnake
0.0.2 Yellow Rat Snake
0.1 Normal Cornsnake
0.0.1 Eastern Garter Snake
0.0.1 Northern Water Snake

Timber Rattlesnakes and Rough Green Snakes are both eastern species and are not found anywhere in the western United States. Western Diamondbacks and Red Diamondbacks are both found in California but are limited to the southern part of the state. You have five varieties of Garter snakes in or near your area representing three different species. If you can, get a copy of the third edition of Western Reptiles and Amphibians by Robert C Stebbins. Some herpetologists recognize some subspecies that Stebbins doesn't (which is normal in herpetology) but the book is the best single field guide you can use for your area. See Roger Conant for the Eastern part of the US. Here is a list of snakes found in or very near to Ukiah California.

Rubber Boa = Charina bottae
Ring-Necked Snake = Diadophis punctatus
Sharp Tailed Snake = Contia tenuis
California Whipsnake = Masticophis lateralis lateralis
Western Yellow-Bellied Racer = Coluber conctrictor mormon
Pacific Gopher Snake = Pituophis catenifer catenifer
St. Helena Mountain Kingsnake = Lampropeltis zonata zonata (or an intergrade)
California Kingsnake = Lampropeltis getula californiae
California Red-Sided Garter = Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis
Valley Garter = Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi
Coast Garter = Thamnophis elegans terrestris
Mountain Garter = Thamnophis elegans elegans
Oregon Aquatic Garter = Thamnophis atratus hydrophilus (or an intergrade)
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake = Crotalus viridis oreganus

Maybe but HIGHLY unlikely:
Long-Nosed Snake
Night Snake

Randy
-----
Firehouse Herps

Okay mayeb it's a smooth green snake, or a grass snake? It's big, long, and green! lol. But i;m sure that one is a rubber boa. I saw some pics and it look pretty much like it. I've heard that these rattlers are timbers. I'm 100% sure we have western diamond backs, and these other ones we have half of their body is like patterned with a hint of green to it, and the second hal fis like sort of banded like a kingsnake,

The list I supplied are the only snakes native to your area. I guarantee that Northern Pacifics are the only Rattlesnake in or near Ukiah. Some people who do not know anything about snakes will refer to all rattlesnakes with a pattern as Diamondbacks. Smooth Green snakes are no further west than central Utah. Grass Snakes, Natrix natrix, are a European species. Look these animals up. Start at www.californiaherps.com
-----
Firehouse Herps

I cant help, but lmao at wildthing!

rumors are rumors, tis all.

Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus
Species

for two creatures to mate and create offspring, they need to be of the same genus and species, OR at least share the same genus
(examply Elaphe Guttata and Elaphe Emori can breed)

rattlesnakes have Genus Crotalus
garter snakes have genus Thamnophis

impossible to cross. just because they both give live birth does not mean they can perform biological miracles.

tail rattling is a natural defense. happens with alot of snakes.