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Once again...I'm confused...Why are these little guys labeled Pastel Siblings and not Normals? If the Pastel gene is Incomplete Dominant, then wouldn't that make all non-Pastels from a Pastel x Normal cross just plain ol' Normals? Just when I thought I understood this genetics thing...

Chris =/
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0.1 Normal
0.2 Het Piebald
1.0 Reduced Pattern
0.1 Banded
0.1 Screaming Child

They aren't any different looking than a "normal"ball, but they are a better choice if you want a TRUE captive bred animal. Of course there are exceptions if you're fortunate enough to get a gravid wild-caught pastel in which case there would be nothing 'special' about the normal siblings which would just be captive hatched normals.
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Paul Snyder

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You're correct. Pastel siblings are normals, period. Just ignore the flashy "pastel siblings" description. Pastel is a 'visible' het so if it's not a pastel, it's not a 'het', and therefore 100% normal. I don't know why some of the breeders advertise like that, unless the intent is to perhaps get those last few suckers who think they can breed a couple normal 'pastel siblings' and get a pastel. Technically the description of 'pastel sibling' is correct if it came from a pastel breeding, but again, you are correct that the snake is 100% normal.
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Astronomy Picture of the Day

I have not purchased or raised any pastel siblings but I don't think the sellers are trying to fool anybody or suckers as referred to in one of the other post. Some may be trying to dupe or mislead somebody that is still thinking hets when the morph is co-dominant. I've asked a few different breeders about these. There is some "Marketing" going on but they all mentioned two things, CB, and better looking/more colorful hatchlings. Since I have not raised any I cannot say.
This may be a carry over from the boa breeders meaning that the ball breeders are just copying the boa breeders. Boa breeders that produce a litter from a hypo breeding generally get more for the non-hypo siblings than a normal BCI. Same claim of better color. From what I have seen, with boas it is true. Not always 100% but the non-hypo siblings that I have seen did have better color.
Just an opinion

Yeah...right.

Thanks,
Chris
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0.1 Normal
0.2 Het Piebald
1.0 Reduced Pattern
0.1 Banded
0.1 Screaming Child

i would rather pay $50 for a CB pastel sibling from "Good breeder exotics" than pay $20 for a "captive bred" normal from "Wild caught exotics".
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (Rhianon)
0.0.1 ball pythons (FELIX!!!!!)
2.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, Bear, and Tony)

My image Gallery
"scientia est vox"

1) As everyone mentioned, its another way of stating Captive Bred.

2) Out of the few dozen Pastel clutches I've hatched, I've noticed that the siblings of a Pastel clutch tend to be REALLY red/orange. More so than just normal x normal or recessive hets. Not all the time, and certainly not enough to charge more money, but I have noticed that they have been WAY more colourful.

This is my Pastel Sibling. His name is Possible. He was a hatchling from one of the first few Pastel breedings in the US. His father was a Pastel bred to a normal female. His hatch date was July 13, 1999.

The picture does not show just how YELLOW his sides are but it does show his gold coloration. This had not faded or dulled at all as he has grown.

We have never quite decided if he is a really pretty normal or a really dull Pastel. We just kept saying.........It`s possible....So I named him that.

One day I will breed him and find out. For now he is just a very pretty pet BP.

np

Five years old huh? Wow! That is a great looking snake. Even if he doesn't prove to be a "dull pastel" hopefully his color retention is genetic. This trait alone bred into just about any other morph would be a huge asset.
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It's actually not that I love or even like snakes. I just hate rodents.

Perhaps one day I will breed him. Several of my girls are over 2000 grams. My biggest hesitation is what to do with the babies. All of mine are pets and I hate to risk their health just to produce $20.00 normal babies.

I'm betting the nicer looking siblings are the result of several generations of the tendency of breeders to pick nice looking normals to breed to pastels. There is probably a concentration of high yellow genes in addition to the pastel gene in some of the pastel lines. Maybe these extra genes make the premium lines of pastel with exactly the same pastel gene as the “normal” pastels.

Of course the example of the nice looking early sibling would tend to point to some of the original pastels having some nice yellow extra genes but even it could have picked up color from it's "normal" foremothers in only one or two captive generations.

I am certain that breeders now are more selective in picking the females they breed with a Pastel male. I never saw Possible`s mother but I am pretty certain she was just a big old normal. I did see his father and he was what I thought to be a poor example of a Pastel. On a dull day you could barely tell he was a Pastel. Out of the five hatched eggs in the clutch three were stunning Pastels, one was very normal and the last was Possible. The breeder had two males at the time and the other was much brighter. His first clutch had no Pastels and I don`t think he bred successfully the following year. Possible`s father was bred several more years and sired some wonderful animals.

"Of course the example of the nice looking early sibling would tend to point to some of the original pastels having some nice yellow extra genes but even it could have picked up color from it's "normal" foremothers in only one or two captive generations."

Was Possible's father an imported pastel or one of the early captive bred ones? Maybe the grandmother was a nicer looking normal. Who knows, maybe some of these high yellow “normal” things could be recessive (or of course polygenetic).

I guess it just comes down to if you can always identify a pastel. Maybe the bellies could help.

Since pastel is a single gene they either have it or they don't. If the pastel siblings that didn't get the pastel gene are often above average looking it has to be due to something other than the pastel gene (which they didn't get). I'm just speculating that there has been some selection pressure to get some nice bright "normal" genes into the pastel lines. Even for the first breedings they may have been looking for compatible females thinking it might be recessive and picked some very pastel like normals.

Possible`s father was an adult import. At the time Poss was hatched I don`t think there were any breeding size captive bred Pastels.

I know the only way to "prove" Poss is to breed him and see what he sires. For now I refer to him as a very pretty Pastel sibling.

What would be different on his tummy? It is very yellow and that extends up his sides a bit. I need to get some pictures of that. The picture I posted is a scanned photo and not digital.

"Was Possible's father an imported pastel or one of the early captive bred ones? Maybe the grandmother was a nicer looking normal. Who knows, maybe some of these high yellow “normal” things could be recessive (or of course polygenetic).

I guess it just comes down to if you can always identify a pastel. Maybe the bellies could help.

Since pastel is a single gene they either have it or they don't. If the pastel siblings that didn't get the pastel gene are often above average looking it has to be due to something other than the pastel gene (which they didn't get). I'm just speculating that there has been some selection pressure to get some nice bright "normal" genes into the pastel lines. Even for the first breedings they may have been looking for compatible females thinking it might be recessive and picked some very pastel like normals."

OK........You guys have inspired me to get some pics of Poss`s tummy. He was a bit dark today and very wiggly. Here is a pic of his tummy and a link to a whole page of tummy etc pics. He is on a light blue Patagonia fleece and I left some fingers in the pics for comparison.

Poss`s Tummy Pic Page

I've only seen a couple of pastels briefly but somewhere I got the idea they where supposed to have patternless bellies. Hopefully someone who has bred lots of them can chime in and confirm or deny this.

Even if all pastels have clear bellies there are obviously non pastels with clear bellies but maybe you could eliminate him from being a pastel based on the belly. I can't really tell from the pic if he has some dark pattern on his belly or not.