Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was at the local zoo today and I went into the back room (I was doing volunteer work). I noticed all the reptiles including snake were in vision cages on pine shavings. I mentioned the fact these are a terrible substrate and can be toxic. I was told by a person there "I have never had a snake die in here." My reaction was..is that reason for not preventing but I held back being new there and greatfull to volunteer. This zoo is not well known for its reptiles but is it worth sharing information on why pine shavings would not be an appropriate substrate? Or is this something that can just be let alone? Opinions...

The ingredient in things like pine shavings that can cause harm to a reptile is Phenol(C6H6O). It is present in pine shavings, but not to the degree that it is present in cedar shavings, especially if the pine has been kiln dried. Kiln drying the wood releases most of the aromatic hydrocarbons and phenols.

Cedar is dangerous to reptiles (and other animals for that matter) because of the high levels of these compounds present in cedar. With pine shavings, most of the danger would be from inhaling the dust.

Phenol is a very toxic chemical. It is carcenogenic and can cause respiratory symptoms in reptiles as well as a host of other problems.

1g of Phenol orally ingested is a lethal dose for a human. Extended exposure to smaller amounts leads to liver failure, kidney failure, respiratory failure and deteriorated CNS function.

While pine shavings do not present the same level of risk as cedar shavings, why take the chance? Aspen shavings perform the same function and have none of the same potential for risk.

Phenol does have it's uses. It is used to manufacture certain resins, for manufacturing phenolic, as a cleaner and disinfectant, and in certain medications. It's just not a good thing to have in your snake's cage.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

That was pretty much what I expected as far as harm and thank you for the extended details.

I think that pretty much said it, but I think that another thing that would play a part in how bad pine shavings are is ventilation. When I was younger my dad bought me a large bag of pine shavings from a pet store, so I just assumed it was ok. I kept quite a few different snakes with it. However, a young boa that I had in a tall tank (i.e. poor ventilation) ended up getting a RI. That vet visit is when I learned about pine shavings. I've never had a problem with my other snakes that had better ventilation (although I def stick to aspen now). I asked the vet why they would sell it in a pet store if it could make animals sick and he told me that animals like rabits etc. whos cages are usually made of wire and let the air flow through are fine, but when you put it in a tank... that's when you start to have problems. Are the cages set up so that lots of air flows through? If not... I'm guessing that the guy is either lucky or just didn't realize that the pine was causing problems. My boa had problems pretty shortly after using it.
-Will

Those are not built for high ventalation rather the opposite. I think it looks bad and every reptile is on them...Nice cages though.