Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Back in July I bought a beardie at a herp show. It is now October, and this baby has hardly grown at all.
It did'nt eat well in the beginning, so I separated it from other beardies. Nope...still was not an agressive eater.
But ate.
It is a rather plump dragon, but less than half the size of others I have that are only a month older.
It is eating silkworms...a large number of them. Dusted with minerals and vitamins. Has a nicely shaped fat belly.
Looks normal in all respects, except it is small.
Is it possible its a Rankins, and not a Beardie? Can it be a hybrid?
Is there a way to tell? Or is it possible it's genetically a dwarf? Not a morph type, but suffers from dwarfism...or could it be just small? Is there such a thing as a runt?
I bought this one as a breeder because of it's orange color.
All I can breed from her are midget dragons.
She's about 5 months old, and less than 8" from snout to tip of tail.Other 6month old dragons I have are easily 12" long, and quite heavy.
Any clues? As fat as she is, she's not growing.
I must add...I bought her at a discount price.

you might be right on any of several counts....

if we assume for a minute that you are providing good care and the dragon is just not getting bigger it may well be the genetics of that dragon.

yes it may be a rankins, you need to look at some dragons to compare and or post a good set of photos here for folks to see.
if you do note the age, gender if known, size and get a good shot of the head. shape of the head is one of the markers.

another thing that can lead to smaller dragons is that the dragons in the US in some cases have become to in-bred this can lead to higher rates of deformed, small, sick dragons... not that I mean that a small dragon will be sick and deformed...
just that the most common signs are one or more of them.
also some folks have noted a "Failure to thrive" which means that some with bad genetic crosses just never grow right, die soon and may die soon after hatching.

this is part of why many folks get upset when we hear of someone buying 2 or more dragons from the same source and letting them breed at will or breed at all.

just as for humans; closely related dragons should generaly not be bred with each other. there are some excptions to this rule but that gets into understanding genetics and should also only be done when you have good records of more than just 1 generation of dragons.

there could be other factors; you may want to talk to the seller if you can ans ask them about the normal sizes from that clutch if they have any records ...
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I have a pretty good understanding of genetics, as I've been breeding champion dogs ( Brittanys ) for over 25 years, and while I dont neccessarily agree with your statement on in-breeding, I dont totally disagree.
Also, this is not a sick, deformed dragon, nor dod you imply that, it's just a small dragon. Eats like a pig.Husbandry is great, perhaps even better than my other herps seeing as I've been giving this dragon extra care.
It isn't failing to thrive...just failing to grow.
Eats a lot, though not voraciously like most dragons.
I have noticed, the head is shaped more like a frilled dragon sort of rounded, and a sloping snout; not triangulated like my other dragons...and the beard is not so well pronounced, though that can be because of size.
I may have to agree with you on the part that this dragon may have been inbred, as the breeder had so many many juveniles...and the price was so low.
At $40, for a bright orange dragon, was kind of low, so I;d be willing to bet records are non existent.
I do know, at the last show I was at, I saw the breeders there, and steered clear of them.
Maybe I have a new morph? I think I'll call them Tom Thumb Dragons?
It is weird though...normal in every way except it's non agressive feeding habits, and size.
Are Rankins that much smaller than normals? I mean this little lady is better than half the size of her old cagemate.
Thanks for your help...
Bob

After I read your post, and posted my response, I thought hey...
why not look up some pics on the internet.
Low and behold, I found pics of Rankin's, and they looked exactly like my little dragon.
Most were even that nice orange color.
I guess that answers my question...back to the drawing board for me.

I have only heard of Rankins being normal color phase and not yellow/orange. It is possible your dragon is a cross between a Rankins and an Inland dragon, nearly impossible to say off hand. One thing you can and should do is get a fecel done and make sure parasites are not interferring with it's growth. The fact it is eating alot and is otherwise active and thriving, I am inclined to feel exactly what you have determined with research online, that you do indeed have a Rankin's dragon and not an Inland Bearded dragon. I beleive Rankin's dragons get about 12" or so max. but I could be wrong as I don't have a ready source to check on. (all my books are in boxes at my parents place sigh..)
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PHLdyPayne

Some of the care sites I checked mentioned that the Rankin's maxed out at about 10", so that would explain the slower, or apparent smaller growth.
This little thing looks just like a mini beardie. Perfect in every way except for size, and the head is distinctively different. Picture a baby Frilled. That's the best way to describe the head.
And in the pic on the care sites, it did show orange Rankin's..most of them seemed to be orange, although I'm far from an expert.
The cross bred thing is a plausible theory.

sounds like you have a rankins.

as for my comments on genetics and such:

glad you do know something; there are quite a few folks who don't and then wonder whats wrong.

and it sounds like you understand: there is sloppy crosing and then there is controled planned "Line breeding".

if you do some checking you will find that dragons seem to have some odd genetics where they do not follow the same rules as some other herps. and we can not (by law) get any "fresh" genes from down under ... so a whole lot of the bd's out on the market are all crosses to some degree... and for the early years we have no real idea of how many unrelated dragons we started from.

personally I wish we could get some kind of deal to bring in some number of wild hatches each year; some form or registered breeders assocication that would keep records and work with the conservation folks down under to help the wild and domestic dragons be better understood.

but I don't have the time and money to spend on that
wish I did.... but...
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>>sounds like you have a rankins.

That's a bold statement to make, when you haven't seen the animal in question.

As a breeder of Rankin's Dragons, I pay a little more attention to the species. If you had a Rankin's, there would be no question about it. They are VERY different than an inland.

There are very few crosses out there as well....

You probably have a runt. It happens.
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Mark
http://www.outbacksnakehouse.net

>>sounds like you have a rankins.

That's a bold statement to make, when you haven't seen the animal in question.

As a breeder of Rankin's Dragons, I pay a little more attention to the species. If you had a Rankin's, there would be no question about it. They are VERY different than an inland.

There are very few crosses out there as well....

You probably have a runt. It happens..................

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anyone replying seen this animal?
You telling one that it's a bold statement to make,because they have'nt seen the animal...yet neither have you, and telling me it's a runt?
A better way to reply would be to provide a quick overview as to what makes a Rankin's so very different.Gives me something to go on. Maybe post a picture...which I would do if I could figure out how.
Your way helps nobody...An experienced breeder teaching us helps all.

There is a distinct differenct between Line Breeding and In Breeding.
With the amount of bearded dragons out there, I doubt that in breeding is truly neccesary. Line breeding however certainly does have a place.
All I am concerned about is, the animal is healthy and plump.
Just wish it were a breedable specimen.
In time, I hope to find a pet home for it, and begin my search for quality dragons all over.