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I just picked up a nice looking female albino (although she has a squished nose, presumably from her smashing her nose against the walls of her enclosure) tonight and I noticed she is much lighter/faded than my male, who is more high contrast.

Are there different lines of albino? Or are albinos just that variable?

Here's a few photos for comparison:

Female:

Male:

[img]http://chaoscat.lowerground.net/herps/pituophis/songopher/malbino/songophalbADm9-3-04%20012.jpg">

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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

Good morning Cat!!!
There may be lines, certainly their is variation. Pits are my love, Sonorans are my passion. I have a "sunglow" male from Gregg Feaster (his stock came from Jason at Envy), a pair of Amels from John Schmidt, and a pair of Amels from Ron Radloff. They are all awesome (but then I'm prejudice!) but all different! I can tell who's is who's by subtle differences in pattern and color even at this stage (they are all '04). I would expect that they would be like the Amel Bulls I work with. You can surely tell the difference in lines in them. Gregg, Jason, John and Ron would be better able to answer definitely.
BTW-Your photography is great and I really like your website. I'll be following your progress with the deserticola-another favorite of mine! Good luck! And keep the pictures coming!

Pat Glazener-Cooney

>>Good morning Cat!!!
>>There may be lines, certainly their is variation. Pits are my love, Sonorans are my passion. I have a "sunglow" male from Gregg Feaster (his stock came from Jason at Envy), a pair of Amels from John Schmidt, and a pair of Amels from Ron Radloff. They are all awesome (but then I'm prejudice!) but all different! I can tell who's is who's by subtle differences in pattern and color even at this stage (they are all '04). I would expect that they would be like the Amel Bulls I work with. You can surely tell the difference in lines in them. Gregg, Jason, John and Ron would be better able to answer definitely.
>>BTW-Your photography is great and I really like your website. I'll be following your progress with the deserticola-another favorite of mine! Good luck! And keep the pictures coming!
>>
>>Pat Glazener-Cooney

Thanks Pat! I was just curious about differences, as so far, I've only seen the high contrast colors and more faded colors.

The Great Basins are, in fact, great to work with too I'm hoping I get some eggs next year out of my pair, the male is a bit stunted in growth as his previous owners fed him once a month on small mice for 4 years! The female is a good 5 feet or so.

-Cat
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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

Cat,

Congratulations on having two amazing specimens of albino Sonorans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love them both!!!!

I too have seen many albino Sonorans that don't look the same. For example....I picked up my male albino Sonoran in 2000 at the ETHS show in Houston. Your female looks very much like mine! Anyways.....the vendor had about 8 adult albino Sonorans to choose from and not one of them looked alike. Some looked just like you had taken a plain white snake, then colored the body with watercolors. All the colors were very faded and pastel..not showing any outlines to patterns on the body. Of course...I was going nuts cause a) it can take me forever to pick one out and b) they all were so awesome looking!

The one I picked had the most detailed patterning...and his is faded compared to ones likes your male.

From this...I have concluded that albinos can really vary a lot. Just like if you threw 10 normal colored Sonorans in a bucket....some of their browns and yellows will vary in shade.

Just like Applegate gophers as well. The parents of my male were purchased directly from Applegate and my male does not have a ground color of dark orange ( like most I have seen ) but bright yellow.

To me...albino pits are the best of any albino snakes ever!

Take care!
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

Hi Cat
There is 2 different bloodlines of Albino Sonorans that I know of . They are not compatiable with each other .
The way I tell the differnce between the 2 is Patterns rather the colors . Both bloodline are variable in colors and the 2 bloodline can look the same in colors .

I look at your 2 snakes I think you have 2 diffent bloodlines ( I could be wrong so dont go to the bank on it) .

The Male has nice even square to round blothces , that would be the Papago Park line , which is the same albino bloodline in the Blizzards

The female has jaged blotches like stars and hour glasses . To me that would be the older bloodline. I dont know the name of the bloodline but is was the 3 albino colubrid to be line breed for the pet hobby .

Jason

Hi Jason,
I was hoping you would jump in here! I have a question: what do you mean they are not compatible? Does that mean they will not produce viable young or what?? This discussion is getting real interesting!!!

Pat

Hi Pat
What I mean by not compatiable is even know both are albinos you get normal colored offspring. The offspring will be double het for both lines of albinos .

jason

So by "not compatible" do you mean if I breed them together, I will get normals?

I'm pretty sure they are two different lines as well, as the female is defintely more muted and faded than the male, who is very high contrast in comparison.

-cat

>>Hi Cat
>>There is 2 different bloodlines of Albino Sonorans that I know of . They are not compatiable with each other .
>>The way I tell the differnce between the 2 is Patterns rather the colors . Both bloodline are variable in colors and the 2 bloodline can look the same in colors .
>>
>>I look at your 2 snakes I think you have 2 diffent bloodlines ( I could be wrong so dont go to the bank on it) .
>>
>>The Male has nice even square to round blothces , that would be the Papago Park line , which is the same albino bloodline in the Blizzards
>>
>>The female has jaged blotches like stars and hour glasses . To me that would be the older bloodline. I dont know the name of the bloodline but is was the 3 albino colubrid to be line breed for the pet hobby .
>>
>>Jason
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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

Hi Cat
Yeah , you will get normal offspring . I have tried to allready .

jason

>>Hi Cat
>>Yeah , you will get normal offspring . I have tried to allready .
>>
>>jason

Makes me wonder what one would get if breeding the "normal" offspring together

I'll give her a try this year and see what happens.
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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

Well I thought it would be fun to breed double het for 2 different bloondlines of albinos together but so far it hasn't been .
I have some Some double het for albinos of the following species
Sonorans (I breed a blizzard to a Albino and got all normals )
Bulls ( breed Albino Whitesided to albino and got all normals )
San Diegos Gophers ( Applegates X Bechtel and got all normals )

I thought it would be neat to get a double albino . But so far I have yet to get any or at least that I know of . I'm not sure the will be any visual difference . The bad thing is some of these albinos are hard to tell from one another so I'm guessing what is what .

I got this albino from my Double hets San Diegos , It was normal looking albino when it was born . But now it is a yearling , I have never seen a green albino before . Maybe its a Double albino ?

Jason

Jason, that has got to be one of the neatest San Diegos I have ever seen! I wonder what it will look like as an adult.

>>Well I thought it would be fun to breed double het for 2 different bloondlines of albinos together but so far it hasn't been .
>>I have some Some double het for albinos of the following species
>>Sonorans (I breed a blizzard to a Albino and got all normals )
>>Bulls ( breed Albino Whitesided to albino and got all normals )
>>San Diegos Gophers ( Applegates X Bechtel and got all normals )
>>
>>I thought it would be neat to get a double albino . But so far I have yet to get any or at least that I know of . I'm not sure the will be any visual difference . The bad thing is some of these albinos are hard to tell from one another so I'm guessing what is what .
>>
>>I got this albino from my Double hets San Diegos , It was normal looking albino when it was born . But now it is a yearling , I have never seen a green albino before . Maybe its a Double albino ?
>>
>>Jason
>>
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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net