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We are new to bloods so need a little help.....

jh_reptiles Oct 19, 2004 04:17 PM

Hi everyone,
The beast cancer awareness post was wonderful. I just recently was introduced to bloods and well I just bought one yesterday. I have been working with ball pythons for years and am curious to the basic husbandry of bloods that are different from balls. Here are a few questions and any more advice would be great!!!!!
1. Is aspen bedding ok to use?
2. Average size?
3. Breeding ages? Weight for breeding?
4. Are they aggressive snakes?
5. Humidity levels? Temps (Day and Night)?
6. What do you all feed and how often?
7. Etc., Etc., Anything you can add would be awesome.

Take care all and thanks in advance,
Hillary and Jason
J & H Reptiles
-----
J & H Reptiles
www.jhreptiles.homestead.com

Replies (10)

hogboy Oct 19, 2004 05:15 PM

Hi There
I would suggest you take a look at NERDs care sheet
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareBlood.html
Bloods are awesome snakes, i love my 3 Borneos.

jh_reptiles Oct 19, 2004 08:54 PM

Great information on their website! Thanks and love the picture of your blood. Thank you, Jason and Hillary
-----
J & H Reptiles
www.jhreptiles.homestead.com

lilroach56 Oct 19, 2004 06:50 PM

1. Is aspen bedding ok to use?
Yes.
2. Average size?
Red bloods or borneo bloods?
Red blood females-6 feetish around 30 pounds
Everything else i forget off the top of my head.
3. Breeding ages? Weight for breeding?
I've been wondering just that.
4. Are they aggressive snakes?
Mine isn't, mine hisses at me when she is digesting but is the NICEST (lowest # of strikes and bites-2) reptile i own.
5. Humidity levels? Temps (Day and Night)?
Humidity:50-60%
Temps: 90 hot spot, 80ish ( /- 2 degrees) cool side
6. What do you all feed and how often?
I feed Rats (right now she is around 2.5 Lbs and taking medium [150ish gram] rats) once a week except in shed which i dont offer food at all.
7. Etc., Etc., Anything you can add would be awesome.
E-mail Kara, she will help.
-----
0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (Rhianon)
0.0.1 ball pythons (FELIX!!!!!)
2.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, Bear, and Tony)

"scientia est vox"

drummagirl Oct 19, 2004 07:00 PM

I don't know how busy Kara is (I'm assuming very!) so I'll try to save everyone some time by doing this....

*note* ALL of the proceeding info was written by Kara, I'm just reposting it........

*another note* I don't know if you'll make it to the bottom of this...so I'll put this here....We've gotten quite a few questions lately that are pretty redundant..."I got a blood, tell me about them"..etc. While we love to help everyone out, check the boards first to see if someone has already covered this info...i know that page 1 and 2 have covered these questions multiple times...anywho....happy reading!

Also how big do these Bloods actually get on average?

Blood pythons ( Python brongersmai ): 4.5' - 6'
Borneo short-tails ( Python breitensteini ): 4' - 5.5'
Sumatran short-tails ( Python curtus ): 3.5' - 5'
Sarawak short-tails ( Python breitensteini ): 3.5' - 4.5'

Again, these are just average sizes for the various species/localities.

quote:
and hows there temperament

Varies from individual to individual. Most of the blood & short-tailed
pythons I work with are extremely calm, placid captives with the
exception of a few wild caught animals. Babies are notoriously pissy,
snappy little youngsters, but this behavior is typical for many juvenile
pythons. Time, patience, and consistent, gentle handling are usually all
it takes for the antics of a fiery juvie to subside.

quote:
and the care they need?

While I'm not going to delve into the details of care requirements for
these species (as there is plenty of info available on the web!) there
are a few points I'll touch on.

First off, if you're capable of caring for a larger boa, or a Burm or
retic, bloods & stp's should be relatively easy in terms of husbandry.
Caging, heating and feeding should be a common-sense no-brainer if
you're familiar with snakes and have done your homework. These animals
are NOT for the uninitiated or first-time keeper.

Second. Babies/juveniles do better in SMALL enclosures! Even the
confines of a 10 gallon tank can be stressful to these secretive
youngsters. In my experience, they do better set up in small plastic
shoeboxes with a simple hide & water dish, and left at an ambient temp
around 82 degrees with NO BASKING SPOT. Put a juvie blood/stp in too big
of an enclosure and you will definitely have one freaked out snake on
your hands that does not want to feed, and does want to defensively nip
everything that comes near it. This is good for neither keeper nor kept.

Third. HUMIDITY!!!! This is one of the BIGGEST problems I see with blood
keepers, husbandry wise. Keeping a blood TOO WET is worse than too dry
in my opinion. If your blood/stp is too wet, the skin will typically
start to wrinkle. Many inexperienced keepers will look at this and think
"oh, he's too dry" and up the humidity in the blood's enclosure. Expect
your blood to develop serious skin problems and probably quite literally
melt if you continue along this route. Understand the difference between
humidity and a wet cage. Humidity is the amount of moisture in the air.
A wet cage is exactly that: a prime environment for bacteria & fungi to
grow and negatively affect your snake. Keeping your blood/stp on a
simple substrate of newspaper and providing a humidity chamber (i.e.
plastic tub full of damp sphagnum moss) will typically do the trick.

Fourth. Expect killer feeding responses, just as you would with any
larger constrictor...then again, when making a conversion to f/t
rodents, ENSURE that the prey item is VERY warm. Bloods/stp's rely
heavily on their thermoreceptive labial pits to sense a heat signature
for a prey item. If you're dangling a room-temperature rat in front of a
hungry blood, chances are it's going to zero in on you instead of the
rodent. Get that prey item hot enough for your blood/stp to pick up on!
***Side note...don't make your blood/stp too fat! Just like with people,
obesity is an unhealthy condition for pythons! While these animals are
robust, heavy-bodied, stout creatures, they are not meant to look like
flat tires!!!!!!

Fifth. Know how to read your snakes prior to getting a blood. Be capable
of free, intelligent thought processes and don't freak out just because
something isn't happening "by the book." Be a problem solver. Learn to
understand ophidian behavior. Know how to recognize when a snake is
hungry, scared/defensive, wanting to breed, etc. etc. etc. USE YOUR
NOGGIN! These snakes are very intelligent compared to many species, and
really a joy to interact with if you're willing to meet them on their
terms and understand what makes them tick.

***Handling: SUPPORT THE ANIMAL'S WEIGHT!!! These are heavy bodied
snakes that do not enjoy being slung around or dangled. These are not
"throw around your shoulders" snakes - cradle them securely in your arms
or rest them on your lap. Make the animal feel secure, not threatened.
Your blood will thank you for it...well, at least by not railing you
because it associates handling with a negative experience.

If you can, visit the facility/collection of an experienced blood/stp
keeper. Observe their collection and become familiar with what a
healthy, happy blood python looks like, and make those conditions your
goal.

Let me know if I can clarify anything.

Next Section: Caging info

Thoughts
First off, let me state that I pretty much subscribe to the “K.I.S.S.”
school of thought in terms of snake housing. In other words, Keep It
Simple, Stupid! Less is often more when it comes to setting snakes up,
with regards to both ease of maintenance for the keeper and a
comfortable, low-stress environment for the snake. Understand that this
information is not offered under the pretense of “you have to go set up
your snakes exactly like this or you’re going to fail!” Quite the
contrary – in fact, what works well for one keeper in one situation may
not work at all for another keeper in a completely different setting.
What I am trying to offer, however, is some experience gained from
several years of herpkeeping and some ideas that can be easily modified
to suit just about any snake or keeper.

Practical Considerations
Many novice keepers set out with the idea of purchasing a cage that
their snake can eventually “grow into.” Seems like a good idea at first,
after all, why spend money on multiple enclosures as an animal grows
when you can just get it a big one and use it for a long time? Besides,
the snake will appreciate all of that spacious extra room and feel more
at home, like it’s in the wild, if it can go anywhere it wants (well,
within the confines of a big cage, anyway). Right?

Well, not exactly…this is one of those ideas that is great in theory,
but when it comes down to application. Big cage little snake, often =
nervous, stressed out snake that doesn’t want to feed & eventually
declines in health if the situation is not rectified. Why? Because
little snakes want to HIDE. Large, cavernous enclosures don’t allow them
to totally feel secure the same way a smaller cage would. Take Burmese
pythons as an example. A 15’ Burmese has no real problem hanging out in
the open because there aren’t many things that threaten a big Burm from
a predatory perspective. On the other hand, take a hatchling Burmese and
put it in a 40-gallon tank and you suddenly have an extremely insecure,
freaked out, biting, spraying, upset snake on your hands. There’s
nothing more that little snake wants to do then jam itself into the
smallest crevice it can find and feel completely protected from possible
predators. Snakes don’t lose that instinct simply because they’re in
captivity – they just don’t work that way.

When housing a snake, the top priorities should be security (as in
escape-proof), environmental control, and low-stress situation for the
snake. These factors are equally important, in my opinion. Fortunately,
there are extremely cost-effective “raise-up” cages that won’t break the
bank, but will allow you to keep your snake in an appropriately sized
enclosure as it grows.

Understanding Temperature
It’s probably a no-brainer to you that snakes are ectothermic, meaning
they are incapable of internally regulating body temperature in the same
manner that mammals do. You probably also know that you need to provide
your snake with an external heat source to provide a basking spot within
the enclosure (we’ll touch on HOW to do that a little later). What a lot
of people don’t know is that the temperature outside a cage has a big
effect on the temperature(s) inside a cage. Giving your snake a basking
spot of 90 degrees doesn’t do a lot of good if the ambient, or
background, temperature in the cage is 68 degrees. When deciding what
kind of enclosure you’re going to use for your snake, please take into
consideration the room in which you’re going to be keeping the cage (and
the snake!). If the room temperature is consistently in the 72 – 75
degree range, then there’s not a lot to worry about…on the other hand,
if you keep your house cool, or have no control over the ambient
temperature, then it’s time to either relocate the snake cage, or make
modifications/buy a cage that is not as easily affected by room
temperatures. This is where glass, screen-topped tanks pose some real
issues – heat and humidity go right out that screen top, allowing the
snake’s environment to fluctuate according to any changes in the room.

It is essential to your snake’s well-being that you provide correct
ambient and basking temperatures at all times. Thoroughly research the
husbandry requirements of the species you intend to acquire, and set up
the enclosure prior to actually obtaining the animal. Part of this setup
process includes regulating the temperatures within the cage. Creating a
basking spot can be done several ways: undertank heating pads (choose
non-adhesive if available), radiant heat panels, ceramic heat emitters
and basking bulbs are all popular choices, but it is important to
understand how each element affects your snake’s environment. Ceramic
heat emitters & basking bulbs tend to dry out the air in a cage, and
leaving a basking bulb on 24/7 can be stressful to an animal if the bulb
emits bright light. Under-tank heat pads controlled by a thermostat or
rheostat work extremely well for providing consistent, non-stressful
heat to a snake. Radiant heat panels also work very well, but are more
expensive than other heating elements.

Both ambient and basking temperatures within your snake’s cage should be
measured on a regular basis with accurate thermometers. Digital
indoor/outdoor thermometers, temperature guns, and simple, traditional
“analog” thermometers all work very well for this purpose. Avoid small,
adhesive temperature strips commonly sold for fish tanks, as they may
not provide the accurate readings needed for a reptile enclosure.

Cage Components
Substrate can be as simple as newspaper or paper towels, or something as
elaborate as cypress mulch or similar type bedding. Never use cedar,
which is toxic to reptiles. Also, consider the entire enclosure, as well
as the species being kept when choosing an appropriate substrate. For
example, if you’re putting a tropical-habitat snake into a cage with a
lot of ventilation, you may want to use a substrate that helps to retain
humidity. On the other hand, if you intend to use a shoebox or
sweaterbox type enclosure with less ventilation, newspaper may be a more
appropriate choice to help avoid a too-damp cage, as a consistently
moist environment provides a breeding ground for bacteria and fungus.

Water dishes are very straightforward – provide your snake with a bowl
or dish that allows access to fresh, clean water at all times. For
smaller or younger animals, ensure that the dish is shallow enough to
easily exit once entered otherwise the animal may become trapped, tire
from constant swimming, and drown. For larger animals, consider using a
heavier dish that cannot be easily overturned.

Hide boxes don’t need to be elaborate to be effective. Your snake just
wants something he or she can wedge into and feel completely secure.
Plastic flowerpot saucers work well for this, as do opaque Rubbermaid
containers and any of the commercially available hide boxes that are
more practical than decorative.

Keep in mind that all cage components should be easy to clean &
disinfect with a simple bleach/water solution. Try to avoid porous
materials unless you are willing to take extra measures to consistently
disinfect such items. Cage furniture can be as simple or as elaborate as
you care to make it; remember that the more things you put into an
enclosure = the more things you have to take back out and disinfect on a
regular basis. It also helps to keep duplicates of “the basics” – i.e.
water dishes & hide boxes available, so that you can replace soiled
items with clean ones immediately.

Blood & Short-tailed python caging

Hatchling
Newly hatched blood & short-tailed pythons are extremely shy, sometimes
defensive, secretive snakes. They enter this world approximately 10-16”
in length, with the perspective that anything bigger is probably trying
to eat them; that “perspective” is important to keep in mind when
deciding upon appropriate caging for these animals. These snakes DO NOT
appreciate setups that force them to be out in the open for extended
periods of time.

I find that setting up blood & ST pythons in small plastic shoebox-style
enclosures works extremely well. I use boxes that measure roughly 15” x
8” x 5”, but any box close to these dimensions would probably work well.
A soldering iron (Radio Shack) is used to melt 15 – 20 holes on each of
the “short” ends of the box for ventilation. Newspaper/paper towel
substrate, ceramic crock water dish that prevents tipping, and a 4”
opaque plastic flowerpot saucer with a hole cut in one side for a hide box.

I do not give hatchling blood & & ST pythons a basking spot, as this
typically overwhelms the snake & discourages feeding behavior. I keep
hatchlings at a constant ambient temp of 82-84 degrees.

Juvenile
See hatchling setup above. When a juvenile blood python outgrows its
baby box, I typically move it into a Rubbermaid 2220 box, which is a
very standard size used in snakekeeping. Dimensions are roughly 16” x
11” x 6”. Water dish & hide box size are increased appropriately. At
this time, a 90-degree basking spot in the form of 3” heat tape
controlled by a thermostat may be provided. Ambient temp fluctuates from
75 – 82 degrees.

Subadult
I house subadult blood pythons in the equivalent of Rubbermaid 2221
boxes – dimensions approx. 23” x 17” x 6”, or a similar sized enclosure.
Vision cages and Freedom Breeder racks also work extremely well. Hide
box & water dish sizes are increase accordingly. Basking spot of 90-92
degrees is always available, and ambient temperature ranges from 75 –82
degrees.

Adult
My adult blood pythons are housed in 4’ Freedom Breeder drawers for
females, and 2’ or 2.5’ drawers for smaller males. 4’ cages are a great
size for bigger bloods & give these animals room to stretch out and move
around. Basking spot 90-92 degrees provided by 4” or 11” heat tape,
controlled by a thermostat. Ambient temperature 75-85 degrees.
Appropriately-sized hide box & water dish also provided.
Response to a juvenile blood python question. Snake was being kept in a
40-gallon enclosure, but had quit feeding.

Baby blood 40 gallon tank = recipe for unhappy snake. Baby bloods are
extremely shy and putting them in a giant enclosure is often the cause
of going off feed. She wants to be in a tight little cage where she can
feel secure. Since she's in a clear, big, spacious cage with an "open
top (which is what the screen top on a 40gal equates to) she basically
feels open to attack from all angles from a "predator" of any sort.
Remember that young snakes pretty much operate under the mindset that
anything bigger is a threat.

Time to make some modifications, which fortunately is easy to do. Get a
rubbermaid shoebox w/lid, a smaller version (like the 4636 model) if
she's a small baby, or a bigger box (i.e. 2220/3 gallon size) if your
snake is bigger. Put 10-15 holes on each "short side" of the box for
ventilation, using a soldering iron ($20 @ Radio Shack & a no-brainer to
operate) to melt the holes. Keep the setup with in the shoebox VERY
simple - just substrate & small water bowl. Try to make sure the water
bowl isn't something she can easily flip - those small, heavier ceramic
crocks often sold in pet stores work GREAT. Your substrate should be
something simple, too - i.e. paper towels or newspaper. Boxes this size
are too small to use mulch in since it jacks up the humidity too much,
and excessive humidity is a bad thing. Humidity isn't the main thing you
need to be worrying about right now. Crumple up a little extra paper for
her to hide under, or give her a small hide box at one end of the
shoebox. I find that those little opaque plastic plant saucers that you
can get at Home Depot make great hides for baby bloods. Get one 4" in
diameter & cut a little hole in one side.

Get a little digital indoor/outdoor thermometer from Walmart...I picked
up a great one the other day for $10, so they're not expensive. Put the
temperature probe inside the shoebox so you can keep an eye on the
temps. You do not need to give the animal a basking spot right now -
there's cause #2 for baby bloods going off feed - get them too hot &
they don't want to eat. But it IS important to keep an eye on
temperatures. You want her entire enclosure to run around 82 degrees or
so...but don't get too much higher than that!

Set your snake up like this and leave her alone - let her settle in for
a good week - 10 days. Give her time to get comfy in her new home & get
hungry. At that point offer her a pre-killed mouse, or if you need to
leave something in overnight with her, get a crawler rat - the size
where the rat's eyes are just open, but it's big enough for the snake to
notice and also tend to move and crawl around a lot, which will also
help attract the snake's attention. If you can't find the right size
rat, I don't really recommend leaving a live prey item overnight with
your snake, since older rodents have a bigger tendency to start chewing
on snakes, or even attack them outright.
-----
"Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the sky on laugher-silvered wings...
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
Wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence"

drummagirl Oct 19, 2004 07:01 PM

that'll teach me to pay attention!
-----
"Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the sky on laugher-silvered wings...
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
Wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence"

bloodpythons Oct 19, 2004 10:43 PM

Busy...heh...um, YEAH!!!!! Unpacked from Tinley then immediately went to work moving our entire mouse colony. Now have approx. 2000 mice set up & rockin'.

Made my first chicken pot pie from scratch tonight - crust and all...turned out pretty darn decent so no complaints. Spent the day cleaning & photographing bloods, which was just awesome. Some of the '04 holdbacks just make my brain hurt.

My folks are coming up for their first visit this weekend...but no pressure, huh?

Thanks for putting up the bloodrant - I appreciate it!

K
-----
Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean

drummagirl Oct 20, 2004 04:19 PM

Chicken pot pie?!?!?! HOMEMADE chicken pot pie??? that sounds sooo good! damn you and your cooking skills!!

For the sake of your mental wellness, I think you need to send those holdbacks to me. Yes, yes, all of those beautiful babies will be a lot of work for me...but I'll sacrafice myself for my..uh, i mean, YOUR good

Folks visiting? Nah, that's never any sort of pressure. LOL!! How is the new place going anyways? You guys still getting settled in, or am I a couple of months behind? Hope the parents have a good visit

C
-----
"Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the sky on laugher-silvered wings...
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
Wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence"

googo151 Oct 20, 2004 07:24 PM

Hey K,
Chicken Pot Pie huh! wow, my girl friend just made some for the first time, last night. It is awesome, this coming from a girl that doesn't cook worth s..., as she knows that I can cook so there goes that idea. Anyhow, post some new pictures of the bloods just photographed, would love to see some new pictures. Good luck with the folks.
-Angel
-----
"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

jh_reptiles Oct 19, 2004 08:57 PM

Great information. Thanks for sharing; it really helps.
Take care,
Hillary
-----
J & H Reptiles
www.jhreptiles.homestead.com

drummagirl Oct 19, 2004 09:59 PM

Kara's the one to thank.

Welcome to the world of bloods

Carole
-----
"Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the sky on laugher-silvered wings...
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
Wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence"

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