Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My young female BP ate her first rat pup for me today. She didn't hesitate. She is a really good feeder. I have read many times that rats are better. Is it because of the larger size for adult snakes? Or what? Also, after her last shed she is much lighter in color than previous sheds. I though that she was supposed to darken as she grew.

>>My young female BP ate her first rat pup for me today. She didn't hesitate. She is a really good feeder. I have read many times that rats are better. Is it because of the larger size for adult snakes? Or what? Also, after her last shed she is much lighter in color than previous sheds. I though that she was supposed to darken as she grew.

Well, I know my baby lightened for about three sheds but this last time seems darker now. Go fig.
I think rats are better for just that reason. Plus I would much rather raise rats. But I switched mine to rat pups as soon as he would so that I don't have a battle of wills later or some big boy wanting 6 mice a week.
-----
Sonya

1- Mice are higher in fat than rats.

2- When a BP is young, it needs more protein. A growing rat needs (and eats) more protein. An adult mouse doesn't have as much protein as a similarly sized rat, see?

3- Cause I said so, hehe.
-----


-Irish
Email: animistdragon@sbcglobal.net
AIM: VoodooDragon137
YIM: [same as Email addy]
3.3.1 Ball Pythons

A favorite topic among herp forums is how people who don't know what they are talking about give advice. Some actually believe what they are saying, but that does not make it correct. Repeating "what you have heard" does not make something factual.

VoodooDragon said:

"1- Mice are higher in fat than rats.

2- When a BP is young, it needs more protein. A growing rat needs (and eats) more protein. An adult mouse doesn't have as much protein as a similarly sized rat, see? "

Both the first point and the last part of the second are completely false. VoodooDragon and many other people would know this if they did a minimal amount of research insted of making unscientific assumptions or repeating what they hear and labeling it as the truth.

The following information is based on data extracted from a paper published a little over a year ago by the USDA entitled "Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey Fed in Zoos".

Based on a 30 gram (average adult) domestic mouse and a 30 gram domestic rat (large pup)the following values exist:

Mouse contains 5.46 grams of protein, while the rat contains only 5, so the mouse has nearly a half gram more protein.

Mouse contains 2.33 grams of fat, while rat contains 2.475 grams, so the rat is actually MORE fatty than the mouse.

So, based on scientific data, the mouse is a better food source (they also have better values in most micronutrients like calcium due to higher bone development) than a similiarly sized rat.

However, when the rat becomes mature, after 50 grams, the values change. If you wanted to compare feeding two 30 gram mice vs one 60 gram rat:

The rat contains 12.57 grams of protein vs. the combined protein content of the mice at 11 grams.

The rat is still fattier, though, containing 9.89 grams of fat vs. the combined fat content of the mice at 4.65 grams.

Rats are more convienent to feed, easier to breed, easier to live with (all my opinions). Either one is perfectly suitable as a food source for your ball python. It's your choice.

n/p

>>A favorite topic among herp forums is how people who don't know what they are talking about give advice. Some actually believe what they are saying, but that does not make it correct. Repeating "what you have heard" does not make something factual.
>>
>>VoodooDragon said:
>>
>>"1- Mice are higher in fat than rats.
>>
>>2- When a BP is young, it needs more protein. A growing rat needs (and eats) more protein. An adult mouse doesn't have as much protein as a similarly sized rat, see? "
>>
>>Both the first point and the last part of the second are completely false. VoodooDragon and many other people would know this if they did a minimal amount of research insted of making unscientific assumptions or repeating what they hear and labeling it as the truth.
>>
>>The following information is based on data extracted from a paper published a little over a year ago by the USDA entitled "Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey Fed in Zoos".
>>
>>Based on a 30 gram (average adult) domestic mouse and a 30 gram domestic rat (large pup)the following values exist:
>>
>>Mouse contains 5.46 grams of protein, while the rat contains only 5, so the mouse has nearly a half gram more protein.
>>
>>Mouse contains 2.33 grams of fat, while rat contains 2.475 grams, so the rat is actually MORE fatty than the mouse.
>>
>>So, based on scientific data, the mouse is a better food source (they also have better values in most micronutrients like calcium due to higher bone development) than a similiarly sized rat.
>>
>>However, when the rat becomes mature, after 50 grams, the values change. If you wanted to compare feeding two 30 gram mice vs one 60 gram rat:
>>
>>The rat contains 12.57 grams of protein vs. the combined protein content of the mice at 11 grams.
>>
>>The rat is still fattier, though, containing 9.89 grams of fat vs. the combined fat content of the mice at 4.65 grams.
>>
>>Rats are more convienent to feed, easier to breed, easier to live with (all my opinions). Either one is perfectly suitable as a food source for your ball python. It's your choice.
-----
Sonya

Sorry, but I DID do research. Melissa Kaplan's site (that's how you spell her name, right?). Unless that info's really old, or I misinterpreted it or something . . . I was in a big discussion about it on RedTailBoa.net. So, sorry if I got bad info. Yeesh.
-----


-Irish
Email: animistdragon@sbcglobal.net
AIM: VoodooDragon137
YIM: [same as Email addy]
3.3.1 Ball Pythons

But thanks for assuming that I just make things up.
-----


-Irish
Email: animistdragon@sbcglobal.net
AIM: VoodooDragon137
YIM: [same as Email addy]
3.3.1 Ball Pythons

Voodoo Dragon:

I can understand you being defensive, but I'm not attacking you. I was using you as an example. Sorry if I offended you. As Sonya illustrated, the information was not hard to find (see link). The internet is a wonderful source of information, but some sources are more reliable than others.

Nothing against Ms. Kaplan, she has done a great service to the herp world by devoting so much time and work to promoting education. You might also note that her main area of expertise is iguanas.

However, as we all know, our hobby is in it's infancy and "the world isn't flat" anymore. Things that were considered the truth are rapidly being disproved. Research continues to expose these fallacies, and our husbandry methods improve as a result.

I'm just challenging everyone to find out for themselves!

>>1- Mice are higher in fat than rats.

Actually that might be true of adults of both groups but since you are feeding same sized rats instead of mice they are about the exact same. According to the zoo study, government and a proff at Cornell anyway....

If you want to talk protein then we should all feed rabbits.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf

-----
Sonya