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two hours ago we used pyrethrin with two little boas with mites. Perhaps I used a wrong concentration..
after ten minutes I see the snakes with first signes of paralysis. Immediately we soaked them with water a lot of times.
But the boas looks sick and have some convulsions.
Now the boas are looking something paralized

WHAT WE CAN DO ????

PLEASE HELP US IMMEDIATELY

Gian

from Italy

im not a expert on this but im not aware of anything to reverse the effect of a chemical like that to the nervous system.

as a future cure over a harsh chemical such as that i would use a mild soap & water mixture to soak them in will suffocate the mites but not the eggs this would be repeated more then once as needed after eggs hatch .

Also another safe method is the use of a vegtable oil or minereal oil however wash it off after some time on ( 20-30 mins with warm soapy water) if you dont it will just cause a "bad shaed next shed cycle but will also kill living mites but not unhatched mites .

Or if available get som PAM aka provent-a-mite from pro-products.com

sorry i couldnt be more help as to your direct question on the state of the babies but im not a chemist or a vet but im pretty sure its irrevesable maybe trying to get them in a direct line of frsh air by a fan mayu help i really dont know this answer again sorry and best of luck to you .
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Did you spray the snakes? Normally spraying the newspaper they are on, letting it dry and placing the snake back in the cage is enough to treat the snake for mites.
I doubt that there is anything that you can do to help them, Charcoal will naturally absorb toxins, but that is only used on ingested poisons, inhaled toxins go right into the blood stream. You snakes may recover, partially, from it but more than likely they will suffer permenat damage if not death from the poisioning.
Sorry for the bad news, contact a Vet and see if they have any other suggestions
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com

Hi Jim

>Did you spray the snakes?

no, I passed a paper towel with a little Pyrethrin over the boas..

I have contacted a vet, as you suggested.
I have washed the many times, also using water with LITTLE betadine..

Now I have atropine here with me, but because it is only a sintomatic drug, I'm looking after the two boas. If they are looking better, I don't use atropine. otherwise I'll use it.
At this moment, the female is a little better, with only some little convulsions. The male has more convulsions, but he is looking better that two hours ago.

I hope they can survive, with not permanent damages.

Of course I'll never use again pyrethrins!!

Anyway, I suppose I used it at wrong concentration..

Now here it is very late; I go to sleep, also if I'll not sleep very well.

Tomorrow I'll tell you.

Thank you very much

Gian

from Italy

Good luck, with them. I would not ever wip the snakes with the checmicals, but treat their substrate, either way I hope the come out in better shape.
Thanks
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com

If you haven't fully removed the toxin the worst damage may possibly be yet to come by adsorption through the skin. The pyrethrin may still be present on, around, and underneath the scales and could slowly be time released into the animals. I do not believe water alone as you have been using will fully remove it. A mild surfactant such as common hair shampoo or liquid dish washing detergent can be applied to the skin and gently rubbed all around the animal avoiding the mouth and eye areas. The soap will fully emulsify the pyrethrin and allow it to be rinsed off safely. I would then rinse the animals off and soak them in clean warm water several times.
In the future never use a concentration of pyrethrin greater than 0.25% which is the level that is used in typical ant a roach killers on the market. At this concentration if exposure is limited to only the external surface of the animal's skin and washed off thoroughly using a mild detergent there will be no harmful effects.
Before offering me lectures on this treatment method take a good look at the active ingredients found in typical sprays now marketed and you may be surprised to see that pyrethrins are present at up to 2.00% which is eight times stronger and does not degrade for a significant amount of time! The effect of continuosly spraying cages with such a material can cause neurological and other organ damage through long term exposure.

Pyrethins are toxic to reptiles even in very low concentrations. There are many different pyrethoid chemicals, and even with the same generic name, they can have many isomers, each with varying degees of toxicity and effect on an organism. These products also have many other chemicals in their formulas that are listed as inerts, and therefore do not have to be specified. Since these formulas were never designed to be used with reptiles, they were not tested for such use. The problem with this is that many of the inerts, based on the tested usage, were shown not to have any effect on the site, target or host. These chemicals can often be toxic to non-tested hosts such as reptiles and would have to be listed as actives if the company tried to add this use to the label. Obviously, because of the toxic effects, such products would never be issued EPA or other approvals due to such test results.
Most formulas that use pyrethrins also use a snyergist which is toxic to reptiles. This synergist does not have any harmful effects to mammals, the host the products were tested for.
Once an animal has received a toxic exposure to most pyrethoids, there is little that can be done, as the chemicals are effecting the nervous system interally. Washing or soaking the animal will have little effect and since one doesn't really know which chemical is really causing the problem with an off labeled use product, no one would know how to treat the problem. If the exposure is not lethal, the reptiles will usually pull through in about a week or so. Any long term effects will depend on the specific pyrethroid and molecular formula as well as the other toxic chemicals that were also in the formula.
Products containing pyrethrin should not be used with reptiles, either directly on the animal or by treating newspaper or any other surface. It is toxic to reptiles, no matter what the concentration or method of application used.

Bob @ Pro Products
Pro Products