Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was checking out some care sheets on these ratsnakes and it seemed that they were saying that the Baird's hail from mountainous ARID areas. I was wondering if they should be kept in the same manner as Trans Pecos ratsnakes or rosy boas: i.e. water bowl only one day a week? Could this be why I am having feeding problems and the regurge? Anyone else have any thoughts? How many of us have had feeding or regurge problems with these snakes? How many of us live in more humid areas?
-----
phflame

I hope this helps, it's a thread I started a while back. It's on texas bairds, but I assume it would apply to mexicans as well. http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=595454,595454

Ive had to mist my male to get him to shed in one piece.His first shed was a disaster.Neither one of mine have shown interest in soaking either.Now than Im thinking about it Ive only seen them drink a few times.While Ive read some caresheets they differ in opinion.Maybe Terry will help us all out.Thanks Terry....Paul.

Maybe not an expert, but I'll share my experiences and thoughts. I don't just raise the humidity on snakes that come from dry and/or arrid type enviroments. I am more of a "mist my snakes" type hobbyist. Someone posted the other day about how I keep the humidity up in my spilotes cage since it is so open. I don't really. I mist my snakes. High humid or wet type environmnets may cause reguring in snakes like baja rat snakes, spilotes, bairds, transpecos and snakes that come from dry or arrivd areas. The species and/or subspecies may not experience this as a whole, but some of the indivdual snakes may experience regurging or shedding difficulties. We keep our captive snakes in artificial environments. I think misting your bairds every few days and especially when they go into blue eye and keeping the humidity down is one of the ways I make up for my captive environment that I keep them in. There are most likely several other ways to do it. This is the way I do it. Placing larger water bowls will raise the humidity in the tank or enclosure without having to do anything else, but it raises the humidity 24/7 which certain snakes don't fare well in. Mist your snake that fares better in low humidity if it experiences shed problems. Of course, shed problems can be the result of dehydration. Most bairds fare good in corn snake environments, but a few will experience either regurging and/or shed problems. If your bairds is experiencing either try keeping the humidity down and mist your snake every few days and when they go into blue eye. I don't mean wet the whole tank down. Just give it a few quick sprays. My spilotes seem to love it.

Terry Parks

I currently keep all my snakes in BARRs cages, so the humidity stays pretty normal in there, but it might be too high for the bairds. Do you think I should remove the water bowl and only put it in there occasionally? And if so, how occasionally are we talking about? Every other day, once a week? Thanks for any help.
-----
phflame

Terry, nice response.

I like your idea of misting. I believe all ratsnakes like it when it rains, or they get misted. Most ratsnakes like fairly high humidity, noteable exceptions being the rats of the Southwest. But, remember, we did discuss the Baird's as having a different microhabitat and habits than the others. They are more like obsoleta in those ways. I would point out that misting also stimulates the feeding response. I keep all my rats in fairly dry environments, but occasionally mist, especially before feeding and shedding, then let the cage dry over several days. I always have a water jug in the cage and clean it often. With problem shedders, like Mandarin rats, I put a moist nest box in the cage once they go in the blue. They love the increased humidity and warmer temps at that time.

TC

>>Maybe not an expert, but I'll share my experiences and thoughts. I don't just raise the humidity on snakes that come from dry and/or arrid type enviroments. I am more of a "mist my snakes" type hobbyist. Someone posted the other day about how I keep the humidity up in my spilotes cage since it is so open. I don't really. I mist my snakes. High humid or wet type environmnets may cause reguring in snakes like baja rat snakes, spilotes, bairds, transpecos and snakes that come from dry or arrivd areas. The species and/or subspecies may not experience this as a whole, but some of the indivdual snakes may experience regurging or shedding difficulties. We keep our captive snakes in artificial environments. I think misting your bairds every few days and especially when they go into blue eye and keeping the humidity down is one of the ways I make up for my captive environment that I keep them in. There are most likely several other ways to do it. This is the way I do it. Placing larger water bowls will raise the humidity in the tank or enclosure without having to do anything else, but it raises the humidity 24/7 which certain snakes don't fare well in. Mist your snake that fares better in low humidity if it experiences shed problems. Of course, shed problems can be the result of dehydration. Most bairds fare good in corn snake environments, but a few will experience either regurging and/or shed problems. If your bairds is experiencing either try keeping the humidity down and mist your snake every few days and when they go into blue eye. I don't mean wet the whole tank down. Just give it a few quick sprays. My spilotes seem to love it.
>>
>>Terry Parks
>>
>>
>>
>>

-----
Ratsnake Haven: Calico and albino Chinese stripe-tailed ratsnakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, Chinese twin-spotted ratsnakes, South Korean Dione's ratsnake, Great Plains ratsnakes and corns

Keep in mind that humidity is relative to temperature and thus the dew point or point at which water vapor condenses to a liquid state. This can cause problems if there is too great a differential between ambient cage and room temperatures. In cases where the room is cooler than the inside of the cage, as water vapor condenses on the sides it runs down wetting the bedding which then leads to a slow buildup of humidity. This generally happens when a breeder is using a single room for many purposes; say trying to hibernate breeders AND keep some neonates or sub-adults going in an artificial extended season by turning rack heat up.

I’ve kept Bairds for years however I’ve never noted them to require anything special in regards to keeping the humidity low. Given standard ventilation, a moderately sized water bowl (kept away from the heat source) and timely removal of fecal material that can also contribute to enclosure humidity you should be fine.

If your animal is currently experiencing regurge keep in mind that it might only be secondary to an environmental problem. If you suspect that humidity is the cause the first course is definitely to lower the humidity but keep in mind this alone may not be the cure. Improper environment may have allowed some type of infection to take hold, which in turn caused the illness. In this case a call to a trusted vet is in order.

>>I was checking out some care sheets on these ratsnakes and it seemed that they were saying that the Baird's hail from mountainous ARID areas. I was wondering if they should be kept in the same manner as Trans Pecos ratsnakes or rosy boas: i.e. water bowl only one day a week? Could this be why I am having feeding problems and the regurge? Anyone else have any thoughts? How many of us have had feeding or regurge problems with these snakes? How many of us live in more humid areas?
>>-----
>>phflame

I guess I am just lucky.
I was keeping my bairdis in 20 gallon tanks but I moved them to a 55 gallon tank that I partitioned in the middle.
I built separate tops, for each side, out of plywood. There is a 7/12 inch round hole, covered with screen, for the dome light and thirty three 1/4 inch holes drilled for additional ventilation. I have a 24 inch long "human" heat pad under the center of the tank. This allows for 12 inches on each side.
This is set on low during spring and summer and medium during fall and winter.
I use aspen substrate and have a hide made out of wood on the warm side and a water bowl on the cool side. The water bowl is large enough for them to soak in if they so desire. Which they do on occasion.
They have never regurgitated a meal or had problem sheds.
Not the best picture but you can see the setup.

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Hello,

I have seen this regurgitation problem in my own Mexican bairdi breeding group. In this particular case, the problem turned out to be humidity related. This is what I have to say about the issue.

There are many possible factors causing regurtitation syndrome in Pantherophis bairdi, high levels of humidity is just one of them. First, it should be noted that bairdi's from different localities may react very different on humid environmental conditions. Mexican bairdi's, for example, are quite vulnerable. Bairdi's from eastern Texas, on the other hand, may (or may not) tolerate humid conditions as much as any other ratsnake. As a rule, it should be advised to use small surface watercontainers only. Use jars instead of bowls, and keep them away from the heat source. Also, it's important to use a (very) dry substrate. Faecal droppings should be detected easilly and removed as soon as possible. Keep in mind that bairdi has adapted to an environment quite hostile to bacterial pathogens, therefore selective forces driving immune response mechanisms are less significant for the survival strategy in Pantherophis bairdi. In other words, bairdi is much more vulnerable to bacterial contamination than most other american ratsnakes. So if you are keeping bairdi together in the same terrarium with, say, obsoleta or guttata, than you are actually asking for trouble. Free advise to all you crossbreeders out there: Don't! Another important factor is thermoregulation. Since bairdi is a montane species, thermoregulation is significantly more complicated than in most other ratsnakes. This can only be facilitated in a relatively large terrarium, plastic sweaterboxes may do fine for cornsnakes but these are not suitable at all for bairdi's. Keep the terrarium well ventilated at all times. The heat source should both be easilly accessible and easilly avoided as well. Another problem with montane snakes is prey size and feeding frequency. I advise to offer undersized food items only once a week. Too large or too often sooner or later will result in regurgitation, and the longer this problem is ignored, the more difficult it will be to resolve it. If you manage to live by these rules, you will have no problems keeping Pantherophis bairdi whatsoever.

If your ratsnakes already have acquired the regurgitation syndrome, just wait for a week or so and try feeding it a skinned food item. The vulnerable stomach tissue doesn't get irritated by stuff like hairs of feathers, and the digestive enzymes no longer have to penetrate thick layers of skin, making digestion a lot more easy. I have had good results feeding skinned one day old chicks. These food items can be offered a bit more frequently, also a nice trick to keep in mind if you want to breed your snakes. If all of this doesn't help, then you definately have a case for your veterinarian. A broad spectrum antibiotic, such as one of the more advanced ofloxazines, ultimately may be the answer to you problem.

I hope this helps. Greetings,

Herman Bronsgeest, The Netherlands.

I am thinking of moving him into a 10 gallon glass aquarium, although it will not fit on my shelves where I have the other snakes, unfortunately.
I also feel that this feeding problem is humidity related, and the tank he is in now is VERY good at retaining humidity. I also have him on paper towels for a substrate. Do you think that I should switch him to carefresh, which is pretty dehydrating?

He only had that one regurge, and I don't even know if you can call it a regurge, as the pinky mouse came up almost as soon as he ate it, unless he never actually got it totally swallowed. It is also possible that since he was trying to eat it sideways when I left him, he gave up on eating it when it didn't go down and he just left it in there under his body and I never noticed it. I put the deli cup that he was in back into his regular tank and removed the lid, but didn't lift it up and look under the snake before I did that, as I didn't want to disturb him. Maybe I shoudl have searched it more thoroughly. The pinky that I found in there was not at all slimy.

Previously he had eaten one frozen/thawed pinky after I had dragged it across the feeding tank. I tried feeding him this past Thursday and he had no interest in the lizard scented pinky. Obviously a pinky would have no irritating hairs or fur, so I shouldn't have to skin it.

He is being kept alone with no cagemates. What temps do you run? Whan you say "jar" of water, would a baby food type jar work, or perhaps just a very small bowl instead? Or would you recommend removing the water bowl during the week and only offering it on a limited basis?

These snakes really seem to require that same care as Transpecos ratsnakes, i.e. the low humidity and the smaller prey items, don't they? Maybe the Texas Bairds are the incredibly easy snakes to keep, but I sure am not finding it so with this little Mexican Baird.
-----
phflame