Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was stunned to read this. Its research from The Program on International Policy Attitudes

http://www.pipa.org/

Bush supporters:

75% believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.

74% believe Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in agreements on trade.

72% believe Iraq had WMD or a program to develop them.

72% believe Bush supports the treaty banning landmines.

69% believe Bush supports the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

61% believe if Bush knew there were no WMD he would not have gone to war.

60% believe most experts believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.

58% believe the Duelfer report concluded that Iraq had either WMD or a major program to develop them.

57% believe that the majority of people in the world would prefer to see Bush reelected.

56% believe most experts think Iraq had WMD.

55% believe the 9/11 report concluded Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.

51% believe Bush supports the Kyoto treaty.

20% believe Iraq was directly involved in 9/11.

One thing I have observed in this campaign is that people tend to believe their local news people. Unfortunatly they tend to tell the news with a definite bias one way or the other. My family in Georgia and West Florida see a "Right Wing" version. My family in Conneticut and in South Florida see the more "Liberal" view. It was very interesting to listen in on the phone as their versions of the news were playing and compare it with the version I was getting. Your left to wonder if Anyone is exposed to the real truth.

That is why I also tend to ignore any so called quotes that other's claim the candidates said unless I hear the WHOLE statement from the candidates own mouth. Lies by ommission have hit a whole new level this year. Unfortunatly a lot of people accept these Commercial speech fragments taken out of context as meaning whatever their political view tells them is correct.

Finding the truth is harder than ever this season.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

.... that only a few people question what they are offered via newspaper or tv. Furthermore, every fool has the right to elect regardless of his/her general education or political knowledge. I dare to claim that a significant percentage of the voters would not even find Paris on a world map.
Furthermore, the people grow powerless due to the progress of globalization. The big companies are ruling, not the politicians. They are only their puppets.

Sad but true.

The other side to the advance of technology and political globalization is the continued loss of personal liberties. We were much more free in the pioneer days when you went into the wilderness and faced life away from the governments protection. Now we have sold our freedoms for temporary comfort and convieniance. Now that technology has given Goverments and Big Business control, even those luxury's are slowly being made unaffordable.

In one year for example the cost of a private home in my area has jumped from an average of $225,000 to $350,000 and we live in a nice but not the best neighborhood. Many homes near by are at $500,000 that are comparitable.

How many young couples can afford that?

Everything has a price.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

In my friends neighborhood near Chicago people are buying $200,000 houses - typically smallish 3 bedroom single story homes built in the 60s, and tearing them down to build $1,000,000 on the lots.

The gap between rich and poor in the US is growing very fast. The middle class is evaporating. The rich are getting richer and everyone else poorer. The distribution of wealth in the US is starting to look more like that of 3rd world countries, like Nicaragua under Samoza then the prosperous US after WWII.

I honestly wonder if we're not entering into an era of decline. Usually countries in decline turn to superstition and infighting and start to decay from within. Certainly with the rise of Fundamentalism here, and the rise of hatred between people of different political persuasions we're seeing something like this happening.

If the latest polls from this morning are any indication it looks like we might have a Democrat in the Whitehouse next time. I wonder if that will help any.

And who, in their right mind, would even want that job anyway? Who ever it is will have a massive mess to start to clean up. It'll take many years.

... trade unions who used to be able to help the working class are losing its power because the big companies are closing the factories and build new one in low-wages countries.

This is the case in Germany and I have heard in the U.S. it is similar (they are going to Mexico there).

We are facing a new age now. The age where the major companies are taking over and the idol profit rules everything.

As you said correctly, the middle-class is evaporating. In a decade or two there will only be very rich people and all the others have to struggle for their living.

I was just wandering through the other forums here to see what was out there and came across this thread. I thought I would throw my opinion in the mix. As a soldier recently returned from Iraq.(three weeks) I can tell you that the news and media here in the states is very much not telling you everything. First off we arrested several Al Quida members in Iraq. We also discovered several missiles with chemical warheads. We also treates soldiers over there that were exposed to a chemical attack my mortar. It was never really a question of if he had them or could make them he used them on his own people. It was a question of weather we waited for him to develop the ability to use them on us. I had the ability to look in the minister of defense building in Baghdad before moving North and on the cieling of that building is a painting of Iraq destroying America and spitting on our fallen soldiers. That to me is enough to warrent us going in and removing Saddam. There are many many terrorist organizations operating inside Iraq they were there before we got there it is only now that our media is there that it is coming to the worlds attention. In Talking with many locals there conditions are better now that we are there helping them out.
As for Bush or Kerry and which one would be better I do not know. I do know that in my opinion I could not vote Kerry. The man came back from Vietnam and not only bad mouthed his fellow soldiers here in the states but he actually went on a sort of tour around the world bad mouthing us. Now he wants to use his service as a badge of glory to help him get elected. I am sorry if you did not like it then you should not try to use it to your favor now. Bush likewise does not have the most outstanding military record but he is not hiding what he did. You have to take everything said with a very large grain of salt as they are proffesional liars and they will tell you what they think you want to hear so that you will vote for them. All we can do is watch and look at what they were like in the past and base a charecter opinion on thier actions in the past. I do know that Kerry wants to down size the already overworked military he has voted to do that every chance he got over the last few years. The military publication called Army times always puts who votes for what when it comes to military issues good or bad.
Any way that is just my opinion and I thought I would toss it out there. Good day to you all and God help our country we need it.
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Beau W.

"There are no athiests in foxholes. It is not an argument against athiesm but rather one against foxholes." James Morrow

Beau, I liked your signature Quote on the bottom. I can respect your viewpoint as a veteran (if that is what you really are). I am one. But when you complain against Kerry because he came home against the war, you are speaking of another time (my time) when I saw in the military, what a waste that war was and came home very different from the "Hawk" that had joined the Navy. I fully understand why Kerry was revolted by our being in a situation we should never have gotten into.

As to chemical or any other WMD in Iraq, what you are suggesting makes no sense. President Bush would love nothing better than to show chemical or other WMD's to justify his invasion, and he is in control there as Comander-in-Chief. he would know about men who were poisoned and in the hospital because he would have been looking hard for that kind of proof.
Sorry but on an election year like this, Bush would know and yell to the rafters about it. I find it hard to believe that the Democratic Party has the power to shut up journalists from all over the world that have ben hungering for this story.

With all due respect it makes me question your motives for and validity of your post here. Coupled with the almost religious Pro-Bush post above it makes me wonder.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I thank you for the candor you are right we served in two very different wars and two very different militaries. I do not know what happened in Vietnam I can only vouch for what I have seen in my tour over in Iraq. We did have chemical weapons discovered but there was not sufficient quantity to be considered weapons of mass destruction. As for the troops that came through my hospital after a mortar landed and they all developed respiratory distress after being in a cloud and all the chem alarms around us went nuts. I do not know what it was as that is not my job I was thrown in a decon line and cleared when I was told all clear. I am only a lowly enlisted guy I am not privy to all the info.
I was not trying to push my views or Bush on any I thought a nice altered or different opinion would be nice to stir things up and maybe get some to thinking is all. There are so many things that are not said on the news and that no one knows about.
As for Kerry and his comments and conduct when he returned from South East Asia(SEA) I was not there. But I can say that even despite the things that happened in Abu Graib with prisoner abuse alogations those are still my brothers and sisters in uniform till a courts martial and they are removed from the service. I will defend them to any one since well we were not in thier position and we will never know what it was like to work there. That is all I was getting at. I may not agree with every thing my fellow soldiers do but I will defend them I can not imagine telling on them so to speak. Its like the big brother thing as a big brother I can pick on and bad mouth my brother but no one else better say a word about him.
Take it easy and have a good day. Glad you like the qoute on my signature block I thought it fitting.
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Beau W.

"There are no athiests in foxholes. It is not an argument against athiesm but rather one against foxholes." James Morrow