Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok. i could not find the leaves but i found a dirtish bedding from my local petstore (underground reptiles)

i left a few bark pieces in it to make it fun to play in.

i also have a box as a hidespot with a hole cut in it but it did not fit in the picture.

the monitor now has all 6 feet of the cage now and hes loving it.

comments???????????????????????

Sorry but your cage still sucks. The difference between that and the previous pic is? If you were on The Apprentice you would be fired. Especially after you were given some good, basic advice. That's a petstore setup. Not a serious enclosure. Get back to work and don't show your face until you have something more presentable.
PS Take these comments in stride as the author is a little intoxicated.

yea RIGHT. did you look at the pic on my other post. she is chinning in her new cage with hide spot, light ,stick big water bowl and dirt. if ur looking at the first picture and diddetn realize it is same as the old one your a moron. post on the other post right above this one.

talk all that crap all day if u want to. my lizzard is chilling and you can sit here and flame to ur hearts content. no one cares.

ps F.U.

You really haven't done much to alter the cage... The substrate you have is not deep enough to facilitate burrowing, which mangroves will do to feel secure, and the "hide box" is a cardboard box, which will rot out in a week, if you are providing the animal with the proper humidity that it needs... If you are going to spend money on an animal, you should really spend extra money(usually siginificantly more than the cost of the animal itself) on getting it properly situated... The animal that you have in that cage has no choices whatsoever..you are forcing it to either stay out in the open, or retreat to one shoddy little hiding area on the opposite side of the cage...

Think about all the choices that an animal has in the wild, ie. basking, moisture, water, retreat, etc... and work from there... But surely, you can do much better than that...

Cheers,

bob
The Odatriad

"If you are going to spend money on an animal, you should really spend extra money(usually siginificantly more than the cost of the animal itself) on getting it properly situated"
I spent over $200 in materials and 2 weekend building a cage for my $15 savs. it has close to 2 feet of dirt, a large water tub, a large piece of driftwood, some broken concrete blocks to climb on and under. since this pic was taken, I have added another basking light and another shelf and more dirt.

Scott

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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

is that green artificaial turf in there hahaha?

Yes, that is artificial turf. It is now under alot of dirt.
I have made changes since that picture was taken. I don't think I will ever be satisfied. I am always working on my enclosures, trying to improve on them. Sometimes I mess up and have to undo what I just did. I enjoy experimenting with different things to see how the animals react. None of my enclosures are perfect, I just have to keep working and building to make them better.
As for the critism you are getting, take it in stride and make some improvements. I am sure everyone here can always make things better. Nobody's enclosures are perfect.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

do they flame at you on these forums like they flame me?

i am just getting started on mine and thet y trying to attack me lol

i aint gonna post here anymore. just read

I made mistakes with set ups from box turtles to iguanas to snakes to beardies to chameleons and even monitors. Like I said before, nobodys cage is perfect. It is your job as the keeper to find areas of improvements.I believe the astroturf was pointed out to me before the pic had time to load. Some of the changes I have mad were from critism, some were just because i wanted to see if it would work. I suggest you make some changes and post new pics. If you are seen trying to make improvements, you will get a little respect. If you refuse to make changes, you will be looked at as a moron who wants a pretty cage, not a functional one. If I got upset everytime I was flamed at a forum, I wouldn't only leave the forums, I would toss my computer in the trash. It is your choice.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

trying to accomplish with your setup?

ok well why dont you come here and set it up for me!

cardboard hidebox is fine

if it rots il replace it. ( soo hard to find an extra box)
hahahahahhahaha

i put in all the dirt i got. thought i had enought when i got it but it obviously was not enought.
im not gonna visit kingsnake forums anymore
to many a$$e$.

im not going to post here anymore nor show any more pictures.
yall wont be seing my face on these forums anymore.

thank mike and this guy.

That's the spirit! Don't let these guys hurt your feelings, it's not worth it for one lousy monitor. You can always get another one if this one dies! Do whatever you want with the monitor. It's yours after all.

Silly doofuses on this forum! What do they know? Imagine them telling YOU what to do with YOUR monitor. If you want to keep the cage as simple as possible, who cares whether or not it's good for the monitor. It's easier to clean the way you have it set up. Don't they get that? THEY'RE not the ones that have to clean it, are they? And if it dies of stress, or boredom from lack of anything to do or hide under, or even from a lack of humidity, that cage will be even EASIER to clean! It's a win/win situation, as far as I can see!

I can't blame you for not wanting to come here any more. You post photos of your set-ups and all people do is tell you how you might want to make life better for your monitor. It's so negative. They could have looked for the positives in your enclosure and ignored the rest. Like "hey, nice colour, is that real wood?" Or.. "Hey, nice branch, where'd you find that?" Or even.. "hey, that's so cool, that enclosure is LONGER than your monitor!"

its attitude like that that chases me around the positive help on these forums.

its smart asses like you that make me depend more in my petstore.

gonna throw in some more dirt so it can burrow

and uhh leaves so it can be more natural like uhh water and mangroves look.... whatever

bye

That's funny, because it was your attitude that made me post the smartarse comments.

Some people tried to give you advice to help you with your monitor, but rather than think "yeah, I'll try that" you've decided to look at it as insults (it was meant to be constructive criticism) and told everyone you'd never come back here.

Clearly your hurt feelings seemed far more important than the health of your monitor to me, so I posted accordingly.

Step back for a minute, take a deep breath and read through all of these posts again. Do you think people are insulting you for the fun of it, or because they are worried about your monitor?

The first thing I thought when I looked at your photos of your monitor's enclosure was how it lacked anything for the monitor to hide under, dig in or explore. Monitors are intelligent reptiles, they do get bored and they do get stressed.

yea i tried and instead of telling positive things they attack me personally.
like you did.
takes a real man to be tough on a forum.

I was attacking your attitude, sunshine

Here's the thing. I like monitors. In the few short years I have been keeping them I have come to realise that they are very intelligent, curious and active. Keeping them in small, sparsely furnished enclosures would be like torture. I feel badly enough keeping mine enclosed that I let them out for a wander around whenever they scratch at the door.

In the few short years I have been hanging around this forum I have seen dozens and dozens of enclosures set up exactly as one would for a python. One stick, a water bowl, one hide. Nothing else. In the few short years I have been hanging around this forum I have seen the dozens of people keeping their monitors that way get upset when no one has posted "hey, great enclosure", but instead offered ways they could improve their monitors lives. In the few short years I have been hanging around this forum I have seen most of those people get upset and start ranting rather than question their husbandry.

Hey, we aren't born with the information on how to look after monitors, it's okay to learn from others. We've all had to start somewhere. My first monitor enclosure sucked, big time, but it took me a while to figure it out. When I did figure it out (some on my own, some of it I learned from others) I made the necessary changes as soon as possible.

awh man, your skin is too thin. If you think we're bad, just wait until the monitors start messing with your head.
As for your enclosure, how about I offer the '5 minute fix'.
Ready?
Go.
Grab a garbage bag and run outside and fill it up with some leaves. Get a rubbermaid and throw a couple shovel fulls of dirt in it. Topsoil is fine. A topsoil/cypress mulch is fine. Grab a some pieces of plywood or slabs of bark or anything equivalent (keep one seperated for later). Okay, you should have about 30 seconds left by now.
Now, take it all inside to your cage, shut your eyes, and dump everything inside. Take the extra peice of bark and place it underneath and respectibaly close to the basking spot.
Done.

im going to try this

it does kind of look like a 3rd rate petstore setup. just my opinion, and you know what opinions are like.

in the pet store it was in a 222 vision cage sooo...

Mike and Bob (and most of the others who advised you previously) might know what they're talking about -- if you have any real interest in the wellbeing of your monitor you might listen up.

Mangroves are shy animals, and an effective setup is one where you only see the animal when it wants to be seen. A foot or so of good soil/leafmulch (not that bark briquette chunkjunk) will really help, both to maintain humidity and because they can dig a stable burrow in it. Corkbark tubes (or sections of pvc pipe if 'natural' bothers you) are better than a corrugated box, too.

It's up to you, really, but don't expect to get any more help when your animal starts declining from dumb keeper syndrome.

the attitude and bad comments from this forum make me sick.

yall wont see me posting here anymore.

you wont have to worry about posting here because your monitor will be dead in a couple of months from stress, and improper humidity, You asked what we thought, and we told you, Reptiles are not a know it all hobby, they are very humbling, and just when you think you are doing it right, you are proved wrong, it happens all the time, not just to you, however you think you are a know it all so maybe your right, i will only ask you questions about monitor care since you are the all powerfull all knowing monitor whisperer.

Yes, please go away and don't come back, but to make us *really* happy, give the poor monitor to someone who deserves it. Why not put a picture of yourself in the cage?

I did not see your previous post/cage, so I will just base my comments on the enclosure in this picture. You obviously put some work into the cage and that is great. However, there are some things I would advise.

How big is this enclosure? It appears to be 4 x 2 x 2.5 or 3. You mention 6 feet. Is it 6 feet long or 6 square feet of ground? Pictures can be misleading so it would be good to inform what the length of that cage is. If it is only 3 - 4 feet long, then your monitor will outgrow it and you will need to build another cage. Even now, a 4 foot cage is probably not long enough to keep the monitor really happy or healthy.

Your substrate is not really deep enough. Ideally the monitor should be able to get into the substrate. Not all monitors will go into the substrate, but it is a good idea to have that ability. Rather than buying stuff at a pet store and spending lots of money, go to a home improvement store (Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, or any gardening store). Buy yourself a few big bags of cypress mulch. It costs anywhere from $2 - $5 for a big bag (2.2 or 3.3 cubic feet). Add the mulch to the enclosure. Some people here dislike cypress mulch, but I have used it for 6 years now or so and I think it works very well. I have raised several water monitors on it from birth to adulthood on it.

The next concern about your enclosure is the water bowl. You have a fully screened top. I am not as opposed to screened tops as others are, but I do acknowledge that there are some additional things a fully screened top requires. One of those things is a deep substrate, which you currently do not have. The second thing is a water container that the animal can completely fit inside. You can go to the same home improvement store and buy a plastic rubbermaid container. You can use the colored ones or get one of the translucent plastic ones. Whichever you get, make sure 1. it is large enough for the animal to fully fit inside, and 2. has handles so you can lift it easily. Nothing sucks worse than fighting with a water container!.

Next, you may want to make some effort at sealing the wood, at least on the bottom. As he spills water or you mist him or anything else, that water will sink to the bottom of the wood. It will rot out the bottom. That will cause structural issues with the cage as well as ruin your carpet below. Trust me... I did that and my carpet is shot.

If you cannot find cypress mulch (or even if you can), add more branches or logs. Having only one looks clean and neat, but it probably is not doing much for the monitor. The more branches, the more places he can hide. The more places he can hide, the more secure he will feel. The more secure he feels, the more likely he is to remain healthy.

Another thing you can do is add substrate and add a piece of plywood on top of the substrate. The monitor will dig under the board, excavate a little chamber, and use that as a hide.
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^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

Im looking at your current cage, it is unsuitable for any lizard long term, truthfully even for than a month. That cage appears to be 2x3 or 3x4 at the very most (judging by the 5.5inch light reflector and the surge protector as well by the screen size. The screen is wrong (I would start with a larger cage, with a solid top to prevent moisture loss/dehydration, which destroys their kidneys long term from buildup of uric acid crystals, and no amount of soaking them stops it, just delays it). If you used 2 inch vents from a hardware store placed around the cage walls (say about 4 and see if it needs more afterwards, about 4x4x8ft cage thats front opening). There is a few types of paint that can be used to seal the wood or you could line it with FRP or vinyl and seal the corners or sides where all pieces connect, its completely waterproof. So line the bottom, and 2-3 ft or more of the sides, with the front having a proper substrate dam to hold it up.
Substrate, lets see, I use creek bank dirt, river bank dirt, field dirt, in which you would mix a percentage of sand (not alot maybe 10 percent?), then from doing some research on that particular species and the soil type, mineral content, organic material content, etc. to set it right. Im guessing leaf and bark litter content is natural for them. Then load the dirt in at least a foot or 2 deep.
Id place the basking light inside of the cage withing a distance fom the basking spot allowing it to properly warm up.
This could get you started at least to a good cage.

You bad mean people scared away another potential great monitor keeper, how mean and rude of you all.

I cannot stay away a minute, and all you get all bossy and mean. After all you all are such experts, hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Besides, theres nothing wrong with using cardboard boxes as hide boxes, I use them all the time, for all kinds of reptiles. Good going fellas, FR

we didnt get mean until somebody got their feelings hurt and lashed back at us from a little constructive critisism, im a self proclaimed non-expert, but id put my money on any of my monitors leading healthier, happier lives than that poor mangrove.
have a good one
scott

Isn't that exactly what happens when I try and help most of you? You get your feelings hurt, because you don't want to hear what I have to say. I also would bet, my monitors are more productive and healthy then yours. So, you see, its just about the same. You call me rude and mean and egotistical, just like this fella thought of you. Hahahahahahahahaha

Kinda like one of the posters above, I have successfully kept and bred the exact same species he works with(and he hasn't) yet, I am wrong about my understanding and he is right. How does that work for you(the above poster) and not for this person. I am sure, this person thought he was doing well.

You see, its not about whos right, is it? Its all about protecting ones image. This fella, thought he was doing good, he probably did better then he was told to do and wanted to share it. You fellas shot him down. Cool hey. FR

If you were here to straighten us out before he got his feelings hurt instead of chasing snakes and lizards around the desert and frying your brain. Hahaha
Now you are here and can be mean and rude to us.
Glad to have you back.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Why would I want to interfere? If that person really wanted to come here, he/she would, the only people that can stop him is the moderators here at KS.

I just find it very interesting, Thanks FR

however, i might be one of the many you dont offend, i except your advice, although harsh at times as excactly what it is, advise from someone who knows more than i do. Guess i just have thick skin, to go along with my skull.
thanks
scott

Its only, on this particular subject, I have some experience. If that experience helps, then good. If my experience is not of use, then great too.

Thinking its about how "knows" more is exactly how these discussions go to heck in a hatbasket. For instance, our MS surely "knows" a heck of a lot more then I, but fails when it comes to applying it. I know all about applying what I know, even if its less. My monitors seem to react better to me knowing less and applying more. Cheers FR

well said, cant really say anymore, i think pride has alot to do with bad reactions to constructive critisism, however i have lost my pride due to my monitors humbling me on a daily basis. And whenever i ask questions i try to apply the responces to my husbandry methods, so far so good. Just need more room!
thanks
scott
baltimore, MD