Reptile & Amphibian Forums

They are definitely not what we expected but WOW are they gorgeous! Here are just 2 of the babies!

Ralph, you were right "They Rock".

More pics to come as soon as they are out!!!

Enjoy,
Greg & Jacki Graziani
Graziani Reptiles

Congratulations Greg & Jacki, you deserve it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And people wondered why I bought Cinnamons, now you know.

Great job!

Dan & Colette

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You're quickly becoming king of the co-doms.

Would you have ever dreamt that that odd little snake you had a hunch about back in '97 would lead to this? Just sit back and enjoy all that the Pastel Jungle has brought and will continue to bring to this great hobby.

This is just another great accomplishment. You and Jackie should be very proud!

All the best!

MJ

np

Congrats!!

np
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Josh
My Email

Those are great!! How neat! Now just take the black out?!!!

K & K

Congrats G & J! I can't wait to see how their colors "harden" after they shed! I also can't wait to see the rest of the clutch! Are there Pastels and Cinnamons?? I sure hope so... it would be really crazy and confusing if there weren't! How long can we go with Dominant genes before we run into morphs on the same allele but different modifiers?? I hope we never do!

Congrats again... I can't wait for more photos!

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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

What are modifiers?

Does the appearance tell us anything about how the two mutations might be related genetically? On one hand, Pastel Jungle and Cinnamon Pastel could be two unrelated mutations that just happen to look a lot alike. It wouldn't be surprising that they have a combined "super" effect if they are both doing the same sort of thing so I don't think the super look of Greg's hatchling proves that they aren't unrelated mutations. I think it's likely that they are alleles (different mutations of the same gene) but I’m having trouble figuring out how to prove it one way or the other.

If they are different genes then I suppose you could eventually produce an animal that had a total of more than two Pastel Jungle and Cinnamon Pastel genes (assuming they aren’t two very close together genes on the same chromosome, a whole new can of worms). But I’m having trouble thinking of a foolproof way to prove out that an eventual animal might have more than two copies of those genes combined.

Maybe it would be easier to prove that they are alleles. If his super looking hatchling only produces Cinnamon Pastel and Pastel Jungle when bred to normals you could (after a lot of babies) assume that it has no normal copy of the “Pastel” gene and that Cinnamon and Jungle must be two different alleles of that gene (the only way for it not to have a normal copy from two heterozygous parents).

Hello Randy,

A modifier gene is a gene that affects the phenotypic expression of another gene. Lets say that the Cinnamon Pastel and the Pastel Jungle have the same base gene or series of genes making them appear the way they do, i.e. enhanced coloration, abnormal pattern, light colored labial scales, patternless ventral surfaces, etc. Also different modifier genes affect what happens with their base coloration, either bright yellow or browish red. So basically they are the same thing despite their difference in coloration.

Now... having said that...and more photos of this clutch would certainly help... What we see in these photos is a Pastel/Cinnamon Pastel and also another one MUCH lighter in coloration. Basically if the out come of Pastel x Cinnamon Pastel yielded Pastels, Cinnamons, Normals, Pastel/Cinnamons & then one other seemingly different phenotype then we can gather that the Cinnamon Pastel and the Pastel Jungle genes are the same with different modifier genes making them different colors. This seems to be the situation with Motley & Striped Corn Snakes. This was also another spin on my hypothesis about the Patternless vs. Genetic Stripe situation. Much more breeding and research must be done to clear up this confusion and give us a better idea of what we are working with when it comes to all these miraculous Ball Python genes, especially the large number of dominant/co-dominant ones.

This is just a thought and I am excited to hear future comments and thoughts on this topic!

Thanks for reading my ramble
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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

Sign me up for some babies in 04!

Jared

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Jared, I'd be careful about nicknaming them.... but since you already did, and seeing how Rene is a die-hard Vikings fan, Im betting that hes probably putting up all of his toys for sale right now just so he can get that Ball Python!!! LOL I hope you get reimbursted for assisting a sale!

Very nice animals.

Dave

And to think... there were skeptics that didn't believe the Cinnamon Pastel was for real! These new "supers" are so outstanding! What a neat look! Can't wait to see them out of the eggs.

Congratulations to you, Greg & Jacki!

Hillary Webb

Best of Luck With This Project,
Dan

Can't wait to see some other combinations with the cinnamon gene. It will be exciting to see these grow up. They look great.

Anyhing special or really a morph!!!!

EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT GUYS LOL............

and a VER BIG CONGRATS goes to Greg $ Jacki Graziani!!

Good Job......Mike

Can't wait to see what they look like when they're out of the egg...

Thanks for posting these pictures...