Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been watching this forum for a month or two now. Ever since I knew I would be getting the lineaticollis.

It is abundantly clear that the general concensus is to keep Mexican species cooler.

Can anyone enlighten me on why?

I promise to respond with some good data after I get answers.

Scott S
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

Pits in general do great on lower temps..lower than what most keep their kings and milks at. 78-82 at the very most is great and what I keep all my pits and other snakes at. From my experience..they are more prone to regurge at higher temps. I know a pit breeder that has even kept some certain pits of his at temps 75 and below with great success.
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Genesis 1:1

yes, i'd agree. all pits do excellently w/out artificial heat esp. the pines. the lower CA. and mexican subs also do best if kept in the mid 70's and even cooler! i don't know anything about lineacoltis however but i'm guessing the same would be true. [?] that's where i would start anyway......you kinda surprised me when you started advertising them! i thought they were way off in the future too. did you get in any gibson's gophers yet? :>]

When I think of Mexican Pits , I think of Deppei and Jani which are from High elevations and have cooler temps . My Jani and Deppei like if cooler then my other snakes , they do how every like to sit on the heat tape spots . Until recently the only Mexican Pits I have had where Deppei and Jani .

I'm sure not all Mexican pits like or come from cooler habitats.

Jason

It's important to remember that the Pit. we call P.d. deppei actually comes from a wide range of elevations in Mexico - it is not necessarily a mountain snake at all. They integrade with sonorans in northern Mexico (and may therefore deserve to be a subspecies of catenifer rather than a separate species) in desert habitat. P.d. jani is more a mountain form, though, and so is lineaticollis.

It's important to remember that the Pit. we call P.d. deppei actually comes from a wide range of elevations in Mexico - it is not necessarily a mountain snake at all. They integrade with sonorans in northern Mexico (and may therefore deserve to be a subspecies of catenifer rather than a separate species) in desert habitat. P.d. jani is more a mountain form, though, and so is lineaticollis.

As I understand it jani is found in Veracruz. A lowland forest state.

First of all, thanks to everyone for responding and or reviewing my post.

OK. It seems the consensus is we keep them cool simply because we can and because of hearsay that they gurge when kept warmer.

Please allow me to share my very recent and very minimal experiense:

FACT #1: vertebralis is collected in Cabo San Lucas when the nights are 85F and wet. Field notes from a close friend w/many vertebralis under his belt.

FACT #2: my baby vertebralis (thanks Steve, great snakes) will use a hot spot and bask to 88F when recently fed.

FACT #3: our baby lineaticollis bask to 88F when recently fed.

FACT #4: both the lineaticollis and vertebralis have a choice of a cooler temp. Verts in the 70's (outside the store) and lineaticollis 80's (within the store). When given this choice still chooose the higher temp when recently fed.

FACT #5: No gurging is seen in any of these animals when kept under these conditions. (2 verts and quite a few lineaticollis)

QUESTION #1: If the animals, given a choice, and choose these temps, WHY NOT OFFER IT?

QUESTION #2: RE: heat causing gurging. Has anyone had this themselves? and a followup: How did you rule out other factors such as but not limited to, food size or handling.

I don't see the wisdom of keeping animals under conditions they would not choose simply because we can.

This thread is just food for thought, an opinion. Nothing more. No judgements made on those with FAR MORE PITUOPHIS EXPERIENCE. None at all.

Temperatures taken by Raytek or tempgun.com non-contact thermometers.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

All my pits have temps zones from 88 to 74 . I just let them decide whats temps they like ! I think thats work just fine and havn't any problems .

Thanks for some insight on these Mexican pits , its hard to fine any info and data on Mexican pits , at least for me it is . This forum is good cutting edge for info like this topic. We can all learn alot from each here .

Thanks jason

You can all develop tremendous data for yourselves and others to use.

Tempgun.com

For $31 (landed) you can have a non-contact thermometer. Take your animals temps within 24 hours before and after of feeding. If they have the option to bask then you will be amazed with the data.

Tell Robyn I said hi!
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

The conditions that we who keep them at cooler temps keep our animals at is, for me at least, the result of experiencing certain results with higher temps. I don't recommend cooler temps cause I am repeating hearsay ( which I don't think you are implying ), but from me experiencing just that: Pits regurging at higher temps.

My first two pits ( Applegate San Diego Gopher and Cape Gopher ), the ones that got me sick with pit fever, both were kept at higher temps. I had kept kings and milks for a number of years and didn't experience anything negative at all with temps around 85-88. When I purchased my first two pits previously mentioned, they both ate great, were from reputable breeders, and were not hatchlings but yearlings or so. Also..they were purchased some time apart and not at the same time. They were well started with amazing colors coming in and healthy weight as well. I fed them appropriate items, and soon they both regurged and then stopped eating. After they started going downhill and eventually dying, I really broke things apart with how I did things. What did I do wrong? I spent many hours talking with people and reading all I could, and then came to the conclusion that me having my other snakes at 85-88 may have been good for them, but not good for my new pits.

I lowered the temps and then started over with getting pits. At around 78-82, I kept all my snakes at that and watched closely. I experienced great eating success and no regurges. Every breeder of pits I got any pits from, I asked them about temps and conditions and most, if not all, said the same thing or around it. For them, cooler temps have been great with their pits. For example, the person I received both of my capes from told me to keep them at 82 at the most without me even asking him about that very subject. My northern pines, southern pines, various bull locales and morphs, jani, and gophers all do great at 78-82.

This has worked for me and many others. While your temps would be higher than I would keep mine, I don't dispute your success and am very happy for you. Thanks for your post!

Billy

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Genesis 1:1

i have noticed that snakes seem to get used to a regime and then not do as well if that regime is changed, as in traded or sold. here, my snakes are whatever temp the room is [ambient though controlled]]...... which will flucuate slowly thru the day/night and season to season w/ pines on the floor [coolest] up to spilotes near the ceiling where it's warmest. i routinely trade/give snakes w/ a friend around here thru the years who uses a different system than i, ultilizing alot of introduced warmth. alot of times though, one guy's snake doesn't do as well in the other guy's set up we have noticed even though the animals are well within acceptable parameters......that all said, conditions are very important but so is conditioning i think. i don't know how many times i've said to a potential buyer, 'this [particular]msnake is not used to alot of heat, so try not to overdo it'. and consequently, those who listened have a more seemless transition w/ their animal than those who didn't. and the reverse is also true for me. just my .02 sense......

I've had the exact same experience that Billy has had. One of the nice things about being an old f*rt in this is that since we didn't know 40 years ago we were doing everything wrong it's easier to keep breaking the rules and do fine!!!! BTW-Awesome snake Billy, but I've told you that before!!!

Pat