Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I appreciate the very detailed response. I'll do my best to look where you suggested for some spring samples. I tried to get onto Piute Mtn. this october for a night drive... it was impossible/impassable w/ awd passenger car beyond 4800' w couldn't reach the 6000' that night to wet and muddy for the audi. Thanks again for your insights and commitment to what has become my alltime favorite reptile! Sincerely, j.d.

JD,
If you approach the Piutes from the east side, you should be able to reach boa territory with a passenger car when the dirt roads are dry. Got up there once in Oct. 2003 to release a boa found by someone else, the only boa I have examined from those mountains. Elevation was about 6500 ft.

Don't know where you live in Kern County but another region from which a larger sample is needed are the Mt. Pinos and Mt Abel are of SW Kern county. for 2 - 3 years in the late 1970's, two of Dr. Stewart's grad students from Cal Poly, Pomona drive the roads of those two mts. at night had experienced reasonable success. Gary was one of the individuals that told me that cloud
cover and rain were the best conditions for finding boas on the road at night in that region.

Nearby peaks of Frazier Mt. and Alamo Mt. in Ventura county have only one specimen recorded from each of those peaks.

Richard F. Hoyer

Dear R.F. Hoyer, The night drive I did to Piute we did approach from the east side that night. Also I did 3 n.drives to mount abel this year and spent alot of time cruising the campground at the top. With no luck...the road is exactly 65 miles from my front door. I live in southwest bakersfield 45 minutes to the top of breckenridge, 45 min to alta sierrA. This October was virtually completely dry, the summer thunder showers never materialized in the afternoons on the coast side of the so.sierra's. Anyway,s i'll plan some spring day flips to all the peaks mentioned for some kern samples for you minus breckenridge since you are already established there. Thanks again. JD p.s. I'll email your Charina website on the details of the five Charina that I've crossed paths with for your logbook.

JD,
My son Ryan W. Hoyer in Utah has the boa web site.

In the area west of I-5 and the 'Grapvine', besides Alamo Mt. Frazier Mt., Mt. Pinos, and Mt. Abel, there are a number of peaks and mt. ridges that appear to have suitable boa habitat where the species has yet to be recorded.

Another species that is likely to occur but yet to be documented in Kern county is the Sharp-tailed Snake. Brad Alexander of Kernville has a verbal account of one being observed at a youth camp near Posey in S. Tulure county. In April, 2002, both Brad and myself found specimens at 'Trail of the 100 Giants' which represents the further south the species has been recorded in the Sierras. It isn't all that far south to N. Kern county.

Richard F. Hoyer Corvallis, Oregon

10/4 good buddy! I'll hope 2 see the sharp tailed too! I have a friend that just moved back to big bear and I told him I am coming up 2 see him in the spring and look for little brown snakes! From the topo map it looks like promising area's abound to observe Charina b. umbratica in it's natural habitat. Would you suggest that 6500' be the min. starting point for kern, ventura, san bernadino, and riverside counties? What month, or consistent day temps should I be ready for, to start? Gracias,JD

P.S shouldn't it be possible for Ch. b. u. to inhabit San Diego County ie Palomar, Alpine? I am up for the slight possibility? jd

Hey there,

Don't know if you know this already, but in the spirit of looking out for one another,
I wanted to let you know that the Rubber Boas in the San Bernardinos are highly protected. I wanted to see one, as I live less than an hour away from good habitat, but apparently you're not supposed to knowingly lift a board that has a Boa underneath it. They (my forest service friends) told me it was "harrassment". One other thing, a Southern Rubber Boa hasn't been seen in Big Bear for about 20 years, when a roadkill juvenile was found. Again, if you already know this, my apologies. Thanks for reading, and good luck.

-Phil Clevinger

Thanks! for the info, I didn't know...I'll take your advice!Sincerely, jd

JD,
In cooperation with Dr. Glenn Stewart of Cal. Poly, Pomona, I preformed a field and laboratory study of the SRB in the San Bernardino Mts. from 1993-1997. The major area in which I made most captures was between Sky Forest and Running Springs and I believe the elevation was at or above 6000 ft. That seems to be a good place to start in any of the Mt. ranges in S. Calif. where the species in known to occur.

Because the extent of the SRB distribution in the San Bernardino Mts. has increased over time and the fact that there has not been a truly organized effort to determine it's exact distribution including elevation, one cannot say with any assurance at what elevation the species
may begin to show up. On the south facing slopes, my guess would be in the 5600 - 5800 ft. range in suitable habitat. On more protected north and northwest facing slopes in the Cedarpines Park area and northward where I don't believe any surveys for the species have been done, I suspect the species may occur at much lower elevations as good looking habitat extends well down those slopes to at least 5000 ft and perhaps lower towards Silverwood Lake. In 1980 and 1981 (perhaps 1982), Gary Keasler and other grad students under Dr. Stewart searched for the species and increased the distribution considerably. But they were not able to search all areas and since then, there have been range extensions at both the east and west extremes in those Mts.

If you were to make general searchers for all species that occur in those mts. and happened onto a SRB, that could not be considered as harassment. But as Phil C. mentions, the SRB is on the state's Threatened list although it shouldn't be. Existing data does not support such a listing. One of the reasons I undertook the SRB study as it has originally been classified as 'RARE' by the state's wildlife agency
and I was very skeptical of such a designation. The species as a whole over its entire distribution has always been considered as rare by many individuals including professional herpetologists. But that perception is completely erroneous and thus I felt that it was probably erroneous for the SRB as well. Simply by taking current data plus applying known principles of population ecology, the SRB has to be the most abundant snake in those mts. from about 6000 ft. on up in suitable habitat. The other two most common species are the S. Pac. Rattlesnake and Mt. Kingsnake, both larger species than the SRB and therefore quite likely to have lower densities and numerical abundance.

In the San Jacinto Mts., the species has been documented at somewhat lower elevations in and near Idyllwild than in the San Bernardino Mts. Far less is know about the San Jacinto boa population in that there are only 4 preserved specimens and no studies have been done on the SRB in those mts. In March, 2003 I proposed to do an identical study on the SRB in the San Jacinto Mts. and applied for a MOU (legal agreement) with the CDFG in order to study that population. My proposal has not been processed to date.

The species has never been documented south of the San Jacinto Mts. to the best of my knowledge. However, species are where one finds them and not where research papers, experts, and textbooks say they are. Science is a plastic process in which the best information is published at any given time but should not be inferred as being complete or etched in stone. Thus, in April 2002, Brad Alexander discovered the Rubber Boa occurs in the Scodie Mts. just east of the Piutes. Later that same month and year, with Brad, I found a male boa on Frazier Mts. Now Frazier Mt. is only about 50 - 60 miles from 13 million humans and yet the species had not been documented there until 2 years ago.

Richard F. Hoyer

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DON'T BE PERPLEXED W/ THE PERPLEXED, IT CAN BE PERPLEXING!LOL