Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had a few questions regarding the ridgeback snake as I don't know anything about them. Are they docile? Can they be handled?How big do they get? Are they pretty hardy animals? What should I look for in a price range? Are there many people breeding them? Are they all pretty similar in coloration or do you have to be choosy in picking them out, in other words, what do i look for?

Thank you to anybodys' input.
Brian

Ok...That's a new name for me. What is a ridgeback ratsnake? is it some new morph of Pantherophis obsoleta, or is it a hybrid? Latin names are very useful here.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank,
Boy, you are just going to end up becoming my friend, we are communicting so much.
I might have made a mistake here also. In the snake book I identified on the rear-fanged section for you, it identifies two asian ratsnakes by their latin names (ptyas carinatus and P. mucosus), but does not list common names. I thought I saw a previous thread in which somebody identified one of them as a ridgeback ratsnake. If not, what are the above and what do you know about them.
I really appreciate the input Frank.
Brian

There is this sense of familiarity...(lol)

Common names are a bear, as they vary from place to place. Ptyas mucosus are most frequently refered to as "King" Ratsnakes or orriental Ratsnakes. In India they are called the Indian Rat snake or Dhaman (rope snake).

Pytas korros is the Indohina Ratsnake or lesser Dhaman.

Pytas carinatus is the Keelback ratsnake and likely is also called Dhaman somewhere.

This is because over most of their range these are often mistaken for Cobras (in India they are thought to be the female of the King Cobra). I placed a young P. korros next to a young king cobra and the resemblance is scary.

These are large racer type snakes (to over 12 feet-except for korros-7') that feed on Birds, eggs, lizards and Rodents. Temperment can be from mildly aggressive to nightmare.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Hello,

I have been following this thread to see what would materialize, since like Frank I'd never heard of a Ridgeback ratsnake. However, now that it seems to have been established that we're talking about Ptyas spp. I can possibly help with some info as well. They are almost completely unheard-of in captivity. Don't really know why no one seems to work with them but it could be because the biggest ones are so aggressive. I am in the process of importing 2.3 of Ptyas korros, however it's been a lengthy process and I still don't know 100 percent whether I'm going to receive these snakes or not. If I do finally get them, I will be attempting to breed them in the coming year. If that is successful it will be likely the first captive breeding outside of Southeast Asia/China. Currently only three zoos in the world report to www.isis.org as having Ptyas spp. in their collections. Currently Ptyas is wide open as no one knows much about their general husbandry, captive breeding, etc. Also, their temprement may leave something to be desired although at least two sources I have read say they tame readily in captivity and can be hardy captives. We'll see. Watch this forum for updates when and if my snakes are imported. Oh yeah, physical description: olive to brown, with bars along labial scales and some patterning that extends from midbody back in the form of vertical dark bars, also scales often edged in black mimicing coloration of king cobras, also large eyes and they frequently raise up the front 1/3 of their body in a threat display distending their throats as well. Apparently all the Ptyas spp. are capable of making a growling noise that acoustically mimics the sound made by a King Cobra even though the vocal structure producing the sound is different anatomically.
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Frank and Matt,
Thank you for the information, I printed both of them. Anybody has any other info. especially on demeanor, I would greatly appreciate it!
Brian

Hey guys, I went to the ratsnake class. and found two hits on king ratsnakes for 75.00 and 100.00 each, are these the same snakes that get to over 12 feet?
Also, for clarification, the kings/orientals and the killbacks get to over 12 feet while the indohinas or lesser dhamans get to about 7 feet. And.... (sorry, trying to make sure I understand it all), the indohinas or lesser dhamans look like cobras and rear up or all the above do? Do they also hood in addition to their hissing?
Thanks again!
Brian

>Hey guys, I went to the ratsnake class. and found two hits on king ratsnakes for 75.00 and 100.00 each, are these the same snakes that get to over 12 feet?

No. Not the same species of snake. As far as I know right now there is NO ONE in the U.S. selling Ptyas spp. There is one other poster here on the forums that said he has a P. korros of one sex while a buddy of his has the other P. korros of the opposite sex. I don't know where or when he got his snake and how much was paid for it. At least one of the snakes in the classified ads you're referring to is Elaphe carinata. Again, there is a problem when referring to snakes only by common name and if I know the ads you're referring to, neither seller has included the genus name.

>Also, for clarification, the kings/orientals and the killbacks get to over 12 feet while the indohinas or lesser dhamans get to about 7 feet.

Dhaman/Dharman Ratsnake refers mostly to Ptyas mucosus and Ptyas carinatus. Both species can achieve lengths up to 12 feet as adults making them arguably the longest non-venomous colubrid snake. P. mucosus and P. carinatus are also referred to as the Greater Indian Ratsnake, while P. korros is referred to as the Lesser Indian Ratsnake. To further confuse matters P. korros is also referred to in parts of its range as the Indo-Chinese Ratsnake. Again, this is why it's best to refer to snakes by genus and species, that way regardless of who you're talking to, they will know exactly which animal you're talking about.

>And.... (sorry, trying to make sure I understand it all), the indohinas or lesser dhamans look like cobras and rear up or all the above do? Do they also hood in addition to their hissing?
Thanks again!
Brian

Despite the number of species in the Ptyas genus, the are largely a uniform coloration. Adults can be anywhere from Olive to uniform brown with black tipping at the edges of scales and a decidedly barred pattern on the last third of the body. This uniform dark coloration closely resembles the coloration of the King Cobra [Ophiophagus hannah], which inhabits the same geographic range as P. mucosus, P. carinatus, and to a lesser extent P. korros. Apparently all of the Ptyas species are capable of producing a growling hiss that sounds acoustically the same as the sound produced by O. hannah, but generated by a different vocal structure. Hope this clears it all up for you. You can view some good pictures of Ptyas at:

http://www.calacademy.org/research/herpetology/myanmar/GetImagesByName.asp?Genus=Ptyas&Species=korros

http://www.calacademy.org/research/herpetology/myanmar/GetImagesByName.asp?Genus=Ptyas&Species=mucosus
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Ptyas do not hood up like a cobra. They instead have a typical asian ratsnake threat display that consists of a puffing up of the throat for several inches back from the head that causes the neck to distend downwards, so unlike the cobra that flattens its neck from side to side, the Ptyas flattens its neck dorso-ventrally. Finally, Ptyas carinatus is the only species that I know of to which the common name 'Keelback Ratsnake' is applied.
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Matt,
I'm printing this too. Thank you. You said the ptyas flattens its neck dorso-ventrally, is that similar to the tiger ratsnakes?
Thanks again, very helpful and I appreciate the time you put in! One of these days, I will cover the beer.
Brian

Matt,
Thank you very much for that info. Man you guys just don't quit. I was a little overwhelmed with all the different names and a little confused. I enjoyed the pictures and printed your response and highlighted interested areas and added that to the rest of the info. I am gathering.
You said that you are not aware of any Ptyas Mucosus in the US. Do you know of anybody in another country that may be breeding them, I would really like to get some.
Thanks again for the info. I really enjoyed it.
Brian

I figure you must be pretty busy because I have emailed you on this. My and my friends P. koros came in through Mario's shop in Miami. I believe that is Zoological imports (my friend found them).

Also Please read the names I listed in the above post. I went through my litterature extensivly and all names I have listed are (or at one time were) legitimate in usage.

I am fascinated by the growling which I have never heard. My korros does not display as of yet (though he has nipped). And to reinerate...Placed next to a King Cobra the same size, the body (not the head or neck) appear identical.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank,

Sorry I couldn't remember who it was that had the other P. korros. I've been dealing with so many people in regards to those article translations that I've gotten everyone confused. I haven't sent out the articles yet because I was waiting for positive confirmation that my snakes would actually ship. Currently they're delayed due to the governmental change in Indonesia. Supposedly they may ship next week sometime once all the CITES paperwork is done. I'll be getting the articles out sometime in the next few days though, since I'm off for the next couple days I can now get to scanning the pages. Finally, for Brian: obviously Frank and his friend have a pair. If they have success breeding them then that will be one potential source for cb offspring in the US. If I get my snakes and have success I'll be the other source until someone else imports more. The only records I know of captive breeding were in China and Vietnam and were associated with university studies. Also a search of the kingsnake forums turned up some guy in Moscow who reports to have kept them but I'm not sure if he bred them. I tried contacting him but have had no response.
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Matt,

Ptyas have been imported into the US on a somewat irregular basis. Unfortunately most of them are sold as cobra food and probably not even identified to even the generic level.

I also know of two illegal shipments containing Ptyas spp. that were interecepted and placed into zoos while the investigation(s) took place. Note that the shipments were illegal due to other species, not because of the Ptyas. Because of this it can be several years before they are placed on the AZA/ISIS inventory.

I suppose you could also count the recent importation of the Zaochys duhmanodes (spelling?) which are considered to be Ptyas by some. Just as both Ptyas mucosus and Ptyas carinatus are considered to be Zaochys.

I'm trying to work with an importer to bring in Z. carinatus but things are not looking good. I'll keep trying, though.

I've been intrigued with these snakes since reading the translated version of Trutnau's "Non-Venomous Snakes".
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks guys, still adding it to my info. Frank, very good reason why I didn't respond to your email(s), never got them. sorry. my email is "Alisaalicia04@aol.com" try again and if I don't respond within usuallly a half a day, I didn't get it.
Thanks again guys.
Keep it coming!
Brian

Chris,

I too know of Ptyas having been imported as snake food, and given their non-descript appearance and usually bad attitudes, that is probably why they've never ended up on vendor lists as species for sale. Let's face it, most people want to work with something that looks cool and although we think the Ptyas look cool, I think we're in the minority. However, if there ends up being more intereste eventually maybe there will be more imported and eventually there will be a base of captive bred individuals to work from. There's a guy that works at the same zoo as I do and he told me they received a Ptyas of some sort in a shipment of feeder snakes for a king cobra they had. He said the thing came out of it's box/bag and looked like a cobra and then flattened it's neck out. He said he wasn't sure whether he was seeing a mutant cobra or what. Eventually they identified it and he thinks they sent it back to the breeder/importer.
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Thanks Matt.
It would be nice to get some.
Brian