Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just wanted to tell you that I sold two female baby veiled chameleons almost 2 months ago. The lady that purchased them contacted me with news that one had lumps on her leg and was walking wobbly. I told her that it sounded like MBD & she should take it to a vet. Well, I spoke to her again after the vets visit. The vet told her that it did indeed have a calcium deficiency. I also found out that she was still housing the two together.
My point: Crickets should be gut-loaded & dusted prior to feeding. Proper lighting must be used. And no, you cannot house two veileds together in a small cage, even if they are both females. One will dominate and get the best basking spot, and most of the food. Causing undue stress to the other one. She was told this before she made the purchase. Some people have to learn things the hard way. Don't make shortcuts when it comes to your pets. They depend on you to keep them happy & healthy.
Cricket

It's too bad that she didn't listen to you. Some people don't beleive anyone even if they are experienced with that specific animal. That must have really upset you... I know i'd be P.O.ed. And i wouldn't doubt she tried to pawn it off as something that went wrong with the breeding etc... stupid buggers.
I've seen lizards brought back to the pet store near my place where the people who had them didn't feed them for two weeks then wondered why they were ill. SOME lizards eat more than once a month!!!! MOST BABIES NEED DAILY FOOD!!! DUH.
I hope now that she is aware of the vet costs encountered (though she should care anyways, but some people) she will take care of them properly.
Some people, ya just wanna smack 'em...
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

I know exactly how you feel.... I think a major problem is that since veileds are lower priced, that you get a less commited buyer for them when compared to panthers. Veileds are more prone to MBD since they grow faster, and people hate to spend the proper money to set them up. I sold 2 female veileds to one of my neighbors after first making him read various books I let him use and get a good feel for it. So he comes over to pick out the veileds, and after I refused to let him buy a "pair" from my brother-sister veileds (since I knew what that leads to), he went with 2 females. So far I didn't get much feedback until he came back over about a week ago asking why I had water dripping in the cages. I wanted to smack him. He had all the information he needed, and it was all stressed to him repeatedly. I'm almost afraid to go over there and check out the setup since I know it will make me mad. He also came back for more crickets and silkworms when the initial "freebies" ran out. I reminded him I'm not a pet store or a cricket supplier, and gladly pointed him to a decent pet store here in town. What a headache.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.BLUEBEASTREPTILE.com

It is definitely heart-wrenching. Selling them at shows like I do, I couldn't possibly ask them to read a book, then come back. However, I do take the time to educate buyers before a purchase to make sure they know how to care for them properly. I also give a care sheet. I even tell them that the females can lay eggs without copulation. That's also covered in the care sheet. I don't make it look easy to care for a veiled, just to make a sale. People think their pets can do without things that we stress "as important". Then they wonder what's wrong with them when the health starts to fail.
Cricket

..and a little story to tell

Many years ago I was adopting a cat from the Sarasota, FL Humane Society. They wanted landlord approval and a referral from someone to say how I would be with animals - I had never had to go thru so much for cat adoption but it was worth it and I knew I was a good mom

In their waiting room they had two bulletin boards:

One was of cats and dogs and their happy owners and other little cuties up for adoption.

The second showed maimed, sick and abused animals. The one photo that to this day (22 years later) still sticks in my mind is one of a horse, lying on its side all ribs showing, absolutely on death's door and it was still alive. The caption on that board simply said "This Is Why Our Rules Are So Strict" the photos and that sentence said a lot – I, for one, was grateful for their rules!

So, what if, at shows you had a board with some cham pictures, such as Dystocia, MBD, URI's etc. This would not be meant as a shocker but for people to understand the importance of what you are telling them. It could certainly be done in a tasteful and educational way (do ya hear the teacher in me??? lol!)

When I do my presentations on the wild silk moths I always bring Toby, who is a crippled sphinx moth (not a wild silk but still impressive) that I hand fed for several days before sending him to the fridge, then freezer. He was crippled because the stick for him to climb on had gotten dislodged and he was unable to climb and inflate and dry his wings. I use his story to impress upon both the kids and parents the importance of the stick! And believe me - it makes an impression!

So my point is that actually seeing deformities and disease first hand (or photos) can have a much greater impact then talk or a book can. Anyway, just an idea.

Btw, that cat I adopted? She died at home in my arms 17 1/2 years later. And here’s Toby - these are old scanned in photos so they are not too good

Toby feeding

lele

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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (both MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog (for summer)
0.5 Mad. Hissers (for summer - all girls, no little ones, whew!)

That is also a sad story. But I get the point. And your suggestion is also a very good one. I'll have to try that.
Thanks,
Cricket

I got one of my kitties from the humane society in TO. They were really strict too... they almost wouldn't let me get her b/c i had moved and told them that the addy on my liscence wasn't updated yet. But i found the receipt from my vet for my kitty who was euthanized, and it had my real address on it. They let me get her... I think the fact that I broke down SOBBING after all the grooling ?s they had then they said why I couldn't get her. how can someone THAT sappy harm a kitty? lol
I had to hand feed her for a few weeks and give her meds, she was all boogery and sick, and SO thin. I'm so glad they let me take her...
I think that is a good idea. Not doing it in a way to offend people, but to let them know WHY they need to take good care of them. I think a part of the problem is that some other animals are easier to neglect than others... With snakes and other reptiles not giving the proper light or feeding (though still not a good thing, by any means) has more long term, less noticable side affects than with chams.
Haha... i just had an image of a take home cham cage with a ciggarrete pack type warning...(do they have those in the US?) "Lack of UVB can be harmful and even deadly..."
Sometimes I think i'm just nuts....
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

nuts? you???

Actually I think that is a really good idea! For shows and pet stores send their herp along with stickers on their backs! - OK, NOW who's nuts???
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.5 Mad. Hissers (for summer - all girls, no little ones, whew!)