Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all! This is my first post in lizards. I'm normally over in the various snake forums.

My friend is getting rid of his year (?) old veiled chameleon (male). He is moving away next weekend and asked if I would take it. I said I would.

So, my questions are pretty broad. I've done some internet research on them, and discovered they can be very tough to keep sometimes. Can someone give me suggestions (beyond the care sheet stuff) on what to do to keep the animal properly?

I do NOT have a cage yet. He WON'T give me his cage, which seemed small anyway. So what do I avoid for caging? What's optimal? Yes or no on UVB lighting? What's the optimal cage height? Do those tall screen cages I see at the stores work for chameleons? How about supplements. What are the best brands/kinds?

I have lots of experience with snakes, but NO experience with lizards of any kind, save feeding my nephew's gecko when I visit. I know this is not a beginniner lizard, but what can I say, I felt bad for the guy, I said yes. I am more than willing to deal with touchy/difficult animals, just need some good advice. (I know, it sounds like I'm trying to avoid getting blasted for taking this animal...and I am)

Many thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. Maybe if someone could just post a really good comprehensive link?

--Vicki
0.1 BRB
0.2 Chondros
1.0 BP
0.2 Cornsnake
0.1 smooth green
oodles of corals
0.0.3 big fat morays
1.2 ferrets
0.1 siberian husky

First things first, you heard right when they tell you they can be difficult to care for. It seems as though the species of veiled chameleons are broken down into thousands when it comes to care. In other words the care tends to vary per chameleon. The best cage is different for everyone, every lizard. Some of these lizards like really good ventilation, others like somewhat closed space. I have heard pros and cons pertaining to both cages. I know a successful breeder who keeps her adults in 55 gallon aquariums. Then there are people who tell you only to use ventilated cages.(ie screened) I use both screened and ventilated cages. If you have a lot of draft in the room, I would strongly advise you to use a aquarium. But all in all, it is up to you, and one you decide screen vs tank, see how the animal does. I am assuming by the question mark when referring to age, that it is an adult. Chameleons reach maturity at six months, so if the original owner doesnt recall how old, I think it is safe to say it is an adult.(6 mos. ) You want the lizard to be able to bask at about 90-95. The cage should range between 80-95. The night time temp should be in the low 70's. If the lizard is an adult, you want to get Herptivite calcium and Herptavite vitamins, and dust each supplement one time per week.(ie Use the calcium Monday, and the vitamins Thursday) Most say you can feed it only 3-4 times a week when they are adults, but I prefer everyday, or no less then every other day. It really depends on the how the previous owner did it. Watering chameleons is a little tougher than any other animal, because most times you just cant leave a bowl of water. The idea way is to use an automatic water spray, but they can be rather expensive. I simply use a water drip method, by either buying a dripper, (around 5-10 dollars) or putting and ice cube on the screen. Misting the cage is optional depending on the humidity. Preferable humidity is low, around 35%. UV lights are pretty much a must, and the best ones are probably the repti suns, or the repti glows. (5.0) Foliage is required, either with live or fake plants or trees. Becareful however of what live trees you use, sappy or residue making trees are to be avoided. Ficus is probably the best plant if you chooose to go live. Thats pretty much it. It is really up to you what cage is best, depending on the room conditions. Good luck, and remember, veiled in captivity only live to be about 5-7 years. Enjoy these magnificently colored animals while you can!!

no disrespect reptileking but half the stuff you said was wrong. no veileds should ever be kept in aquariums exccept for babies. either get a reptarium by apogee or a aluminum screened cage. i preffer reps but most use aluminums.you have to mist your cham at least 2 times a day, its not really optional, but a dripper is optional.since he is an adult i would dust his food 3-4 times per weeek. if you keep him inside use miner-all indoor. if outside use the outdoor version one which contains no d3. always mist with warm water and never put an ice cube on the cage. for veileds lots of foilage is needed but u still need to be able to monitor the cham. chams can reach sexual maturity as early as 6 months but most of the time 8-12 months. he needs a basking light and a uvb light. a reptisun 5.0 works well. the temps should be 95-105 for the basking, ambient air temp should be around 85 and the coolest spot of the cage should be 75. and at night 65-75 is the best temps. if you have any other questions at all please ask.
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1.2 veiled chameleons(Rocket, Jenevive, and Sally)
1.0 pacific tree frog(Kermit)
want to get a diego suarez( which I would name Tommy)

Thanks to both of you. Sounds a lot like the debate that often rages over in the Green Tree Python forum over care requirements!

I do have a spare cage in my garage, identical to the one I am using for my Chondros (green tree pythons). It is an Oceanic tall cage with screened SIDES (30" tall). I got it to house my next BRB (which I don't have yet and will probably wait to get now). I use one like it for my Chondros, but I seal up the screen. Would this work? I have a picture linked in my gallery of the cage...I'm posting it at the end. If you guys nix the cage, I'll find something else. I've got my eye on a cage on ebay right now! The spare doens't have a light fixture, so I'd have to get something for daylight. It does have holes for heat bulb-type lights.

I do have a dripper. THought it might work for the Chondros, but they hated it, and it just made the cage too wet. It's one of those green boxy drippers you get at the pet store. I assume from what you say, this would work.

I'll pick up those vitamins, lights, etc. this weekend.

The guy I'm getting him from says he fed him every day, so I'll stick with that. I did ask him several questions, and he told me this animal was EASY to keep. He didn't know a lot of details about care to share with me. He told me he had the chameleon for 6 months. He thinks he's about a year old.

Fake plants are OK, aren't they? I don't want to try to locate a live little ficus...I have little fake ficus...and lots of fake plants laying around to use in my snake cages.

Also, I was planning to do a PVC jungle gym similar to what's pictured in the chondro cage pic i'm attaching.

THANK YOU BOTH so much for the information. I'm pasting it all into a file.

--Vicki

Vicky, everyone has different draws of luck with chameleons. FOr this guy to say im wrong is rediculous, especially when everyone has different preferences. Some really experienced herpers wont even give the atttempt to keep a chameleon. This species seems to be an all or none animal, meaning it will either greatly flurish, or die, no in between. If it is sick, chances are they are not good surviors and can not tough it out. Some people will have no experience, see it in a pet shop, think it is unique and keep it without even having a clue where it is from. A lot depends on the hardiness of the animal, and the attention given to it. Regard what he says about you cant use glass aqauriums. Of course screen is better, but some people for whatever reason cant have it because A. they cant keep it hot enough, or B. there is too much of a draft. But him sayin you cant use it is politically incorrect, since there are breeders who use them and are successful. As far as watering goes, mist the tank,(cage) and the plants. Fake plants are fine, just make sure they are sterile. Try to avoid misting the lizard, since it agitates them( Most of them). Between that and the drip, they will drink, and retain proper humidity. Good luck!!!

if you ask any other cham ower on this forum i think they would all tell you no glass cages. at least two sides have to be screen and the top too. rep-cal is also a good vitamin supp too. that setup up looked good. the cage neds to be at least 2x2x4. then you will have it setup.
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1.2 veiled chameleons(Rocket, Jenevive, and Sally)
1.0 pacific tree frog(Kermit)
want to get a diego suarez( which I would name Tommy)

The cage you have sounds like it may be ok.. How wide is it? It is small for a male, but if you are home a lot or can keep him in a room where he can't get in a lot of trouble or be bothered by cats/dogs/etc then you can make a corner for him. Aside from trees you can use skipping rope or something like that to make a jungle gym for him in the corner. Thatwill give him lots of space to wander. What size of cage does your friend keep him in now?
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

First of all, before you state someone is wrong, be able to back it up with proof.There is no official rule book of keeping these or any animals. Its all about experience. I know a lot of breeders and keepers, including myself, who use big glass tanks. Saying my comment about what kind of supplements to use is strictly a matter of opinion. I have bred Jacksons, and kept Veileds for pets, and have had no trouble with Rep-Cal. So if you do wish to insult somebody, at least hit the facts, not someones experienced opinion.

And by the way, some breeders will tell you not to spray the lizard directly. Veileds in partiular hate it, and adds to there already long list of stress factors. Spray the leaves and foliage, but not the chameleon, is what some experts will tell you.

Thanks again.

Is my spare cage OK (it has screened sides and a screened top, and back vent)? It's 30" tall, not 4' tall. I'd like to use it for the time being since I recalled I had it collecting dust in my garage! But I can probably easily find one of those Apogees...I see them all over the place here.

I'm hopeful he'll do OK. The guy who had him (who didn't seem to know a lot about them) managed to keep him healthy (well, he looks healthy anyway), so I'm optimistic. And I'm fairly obsessive over my animals, so I'll be very careful with him.

Best to you guys...if you have any other pieces of advice, I'm all ears!

--Vicki

Vicki,
As for your cage, it may be a little too short. I recently got a baby veiled cham, and his cage height is 36". Based on the size adult Veileds can get, especially the males, and my experience thus far with the little guy, taller is better. While you may be able to temporarily house him there, you should probably consider getting something with a little more height.

I'd say that is pretty good rule to go by... you will find after you get used to his prefferences it will be easier to know what/how to do things. My chams HATES being sprayed right away, but loves it onces she starts to drink. She won't use a dripper often, and aside from spraying her in the face (after a few min of misting the cage and plants to GET her to drink i have to add) for 20 min a day there isn't much i can do to get her to drink enough. I shower her about 3x a week, and she doesn't mind it too much now. I've figured out how she likes it, and she will drink that way. I also wait until a few min after he rshower and give her some water with an eye dropper.
You will find lots of controversy here, but do remember there is no one set way to do things. how people care for them chams in CA for example is very different than i do in ontario, for example. Take all the info you can and figure out how YOu want to do things... and learn what to watch out for. your cham will let you know if you do something wrong...
For water, veileds also get a lot from the veggies they eat. also, you can keep an eye on his poop to see how he's doing (white vs orange urates, soggy or solid poop etc)
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

You will notice this a lot... Chams are relatively new to being captive and there are not set "rules" on how to care for them. They can be kept in aquariums, but it is much more difficult than cages. They have to be set up for proper ventilation (small fans etc) and also for minimal reflection. Males will especially get p.o.'d by the reflection and i wouldn't recommend a tank for a male anyway as they get MUCH larger than females... also they like height and even large tanks are generally not very tall... unless you get into custom built, and that costs a lot of money and is a whole other story. Honestly, if you have the resources, i would suggest building a cage. My first was made with 2x2s for the frame and 1x2s for support on the bottom and for the door. it was 2 sides and door screen, back solid wood. It was 5x3x2 (I thought i had a male...) and I ended up having to line it with plastic garden mesh (similar to 1/4" hardware cloth) because no matter how many pathways i put in she'd INSIST on hanging from the roof and pulled out 2 toenails... you will find you may have to modify his home a few times to suit his "taste" lol.
My new cage is 4x2x2 and is 3 sides plywood door 1/4" plastic stuff i used before. I also have 2 large trees (some tropical thing and a hybiscus) outside of her cage that she can go to when she wants. i have it set up so that she can't get away from her corner of the room and no other animals (cats) can easily get to her. I am really liking this set up and so is she. She LOVES wandering around her trees... you will learn chams have a "i'm the king/queen" attidute... it's funny.
As for supplements, I would go every other feeding calcium only, and every fifth feeding mineral supplements (like minerall I) and 1x a week or every ten days vitamin supplement. THat being said, ifyou gutload well you can probably skip the vitamin. supplement. My cham is a panther but i find she likes her basking on the warm side (they suggest 85-90 for panthers, she likes around 95). I would try and keep a basking spot around 110*F and if he basks ALL the time raise it a bit. Make sure he can't get any closer to warmer area though... chams won't feel if they are being burned and you don't want to come home to a toasted little guy!
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

Lindsey,
Do you have a pic of your set-up? I'm trying to figure out a way to keep my veiled in her corner. I have tried putting plants above her cage, around her cage (but not reaching the floor), ways to climb the curtain next to her cge in hopes of keeing her contained. Unfortunaly, she's stubborn & none of this works. I was recently blasted about not keeping her properly when I had posted that she managed to try to sleep under the radiator. I'm looking for ways to keep her contained in one area until I can get her the proper cageing (later Novemeber). Any tips will be great. Thanks!
~Chrissy

It's better you taking it and wanting to know how to care for it, then someone getting it and not caring for it well. or... him leaving it there (i know, who would do that? a girl on here had a rescue that was left abandoned in an apt...).
I haven't read the other responses yet, but i'll keep mine brief.
1)YES to UVB. It is difficult and a pain in the butt to keep them without it. And by that i mean very few people do it and put LOTS of time in to experimenting with different things and researching. I definately wouldn't suggest it... Chams (veileds especially) are very prone to mbd.
2) Im in Canada, and there aren't many stores around here with big screen cages so i'm not sure what you mean. For a female veiled you can go as small as 3.5'tallx2'x2', and even then i'd suggest having a corner where she can wander on large plants out in the open. For a male the smallest would be 4.5'x2'x2', and ditto for the out in the open part. I'd go 4x2.5x2 for female or 5x3x2 for male... Chams tend to use all of their space unlike lots of other lizards. Try and get something with all screen. Good airflow and humidity isn't too much of a concern with veileds. Misting a few times a day and a dripper filled once or twice a day will keep them well hydrated in normal house humidity (save if your house is VERY dry, then you may want to keep a humdidifier in the room).
Those are the two major things i'm going to touch on... there are lots of replies and after i read them if anything is missing i'll fill you in... (but i'm sure there won't be, everyone here is really knowledgeable and helpful )
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

I'm so happy to have all this information. I'm copying and pasting all of it so I don't forget when this thread disappears.

Sounds like the cage I have is too small. I'll keep it for the snake...may have to use it temporarily. I'm picking him up Thursday.

Thank you!

--Vicki

I've been taking a look at these wall-less contraptions...and they look pretty neat. Is that what you mean by making a "corner" for the chameleon?

These things look pretty easy to make, and rig...think I should set one up? Also, how can I be sure my chameleon won't wander off the rigging, and onto other things...like blinds, light fixtures, etc...

How long can I keep him there? Is it something that's only for "playtime" or can he hang out on such a thing when I'm gone?

One last thing...if I make of these things, what's the best bulb to install? I've seen a lot of PC's with 7% UV...and others a lot more powerful. The repti-glows I've seen are only strip lights...haven't found any that screw into standard domes.

My chams cage is along one, and about four feet away facing the perpendicular wall. Between her cage and the wall it's facing I have two trees. There is a biovine that I wrap around the last tree (it goes near the first one) that I attach to a branch in her cage when it's open. That way she can go along the biovine to either tree and in and out as she pleases. I have a sheet of thin plywood that is about 4 feet long and 2 feet high that I put parallel to the wall that her cage is along. It rests against her cage and the end goes all the way to the wall her cage is facing... I'll try and make a pic for you. She can't reach any blinds, can't get to the top of her cage, and if she were to go to the floor the plywood would keep her from going anywhere. She can't reach the top of the plywood from her cage to get over it... it works out pretty well. I let her come and go as she wants. . she tends to spend a lot of time in her hybiscus outside the cage, so sometimes i'll make her stay in for a few hours a day to make sure she gets enough light.
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~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

I sure would love to see a picture of that!