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Female Veiled in trouble please help...

SMOKEYTHEBEAR Oct 29, 2004 07:12 PM

My female veiled has laid her eggs once before with no problem...she started digging a few weeks ago right before I went to bed, when I woke up in the morning she was filling in the hole. So I figured she was done, I took out the dirt pale and dug up the eggs she only had laid 33 last time she laid 54..thought it was kind of weird but didn't think anything about it. Until a week later when she was back down in the sand digging again, and acting like she needed to lay more. I put the pale back in and she dug a hole that night..she came out and didn't fill it back in. I left it for a couple days and she just goes down there siits there and doesn't do anything. SHe doesn't really dig anymore. But she will sit down there during the day and come out at night and eat. What should I do? she will only eat maybe 3 crickets and go to sleep. I have also noticed a bump on her head right inbetween her eyes, it looks as though it growing...any know what that might be ? And another thing her ankles and arms look abnormaly large, almost like there swallon. PLease anyone help, It has been 2 weeks since she dug her first hole and im afraid of the worst
Jim

Replies (5)

FindaratoT Oct 29, 2004 09:06 PM

i've never had a female before but you should probably have an xray done on her. egg binding is very dangerous. as to her being swollen its hard to say, but it sounds like it could be edema which is qoiter like swellings around the head neck and throat. this is possibly caused by and excess of vitamin A. check these things out just to be safe.

chimbakka Oct 30, 2004 12:00 AM

My female panther was egg bound last year. I took her to the vet and after trying a few things she ended up having a csection. She lived, but I think if i had waited too long she wouldn't have. She didn't eat, but she did have swelling on her chest. It almost looked as if he skin was all fluidy or had an air or fat pocket under it. I beleive it was edema caused by her being egg bound, which had a negative effect on her physiology. What are you/have you been dusting with? Gravid females are also especially vulnerable to becoming calcium deficient. If her eggs didnt calcify properly that may be why she is having problems laying them... it may also explain the swelling. I would get her in for a check up and your vet can determine if she does in fact have eggs in her (by xray) and can also see what shape her bones are in. if htey don't get enough calcium they will take away from themselves (give what is there to the eggs and neglect themselves) and can develop bone problems.
Those are the only things I can think of. How far apart was the 50-something clutch and the 30-something one? I would suggest getting her looked at while she is sitll eating and strong, that way if there is a problem you can deal with it while she can handle it... and if there isn't a serious problem then you will have peace of mind.
-----
~Lindsay
0.1 panther chameleon (Orion)
1.2 r. brevicaudatus chams (unnamed)
0.1 leopard gecko (Acadia)
1.0 pictus gecko (Raine)
1.1 parakeets (Bongo/Citron)
1.1 cats (Tigger/Bonzai)
1.0 dwarf hampster (Chico the monster)
someday will have 1.1 great danes (will be Osiris and Solaris)

Twinoats Oct 30, 2004 11:40 AM

Uniform swelling of distal aspects of limbs/joints is a sign of metabolic bone disease. This disease can have many causes, but given this chameleon's history it could be hypocalcemia exacerbated by egg production and laying. If she was hovering near chronic calcium deficiency, the effort of laying eggs may have sapped the little Ca++ she had and now she has become egg-bound because she no longer has the strength to expell the eggs. Seek a cham-friendly DVM ASAP who will radiograph her to check her bone density and for retained eggs, at the very least. This is a common syndrome of female chams and can be corrected if intervention is immediate. Once a cham begins manifesting outward signs of MBD (ie, swollen limbs, tongue not working, etc) then the damage internally has advanced past the point of correction by pet store calcium sources/gutloads. Vets usually carry a more potent and absorbable calcium supplement that can be given orally if the cham has not deteriorated, or injectable Ca if necessary. A thorough exam will help with an accurate dignosis as well, more than this forum will allow. Good luck.

~Kerry

smokeythebear Oct 30, 2004 12:00 PM

I believe she has MBD, she cant really use her tounge anymore and has a hard time eating, plus the swallow limbs. I dont know of any chameleon vets anywhere near me, how would I go about finding one? She cant really hold herself up anymore and is looking pretty bad, is there anything I can do at this second to help her? So all she would need is more calcium? Thanks for your quick responses
Jim

Twinoats Oct 30, 2004 12:17 PM

If she is not able to move herself as well as before then you can at least keep her near a warm spot in her cage, as she may not be able to at least regulate her temp at this point. If it is MBD, then yes, she will need calcium, but this may have progressed beyond simple restoration of calcium stores by merely giving oral supplements. She really sounds like she needs a vet to examine her firsthand to determine her condition; I realize you know this too and its frustrating to just keep hearing that. If she is dehydrated her body will need fluids injected as well as calcium to be able to absorb the calcium properly; if she can't eat and hasn't eaten in a while then her GI tract may not be in good shape to absorb oral calicum; etc. What you can do right now is make sure she isn't cold, i.e. on the bottom of her cage, in a draft, etc., then get out the phone book and start calling all the vets until you find one who will see a chameleon or at least can refer you to one. Yes, you may have to drive, and yes, you will probably have to pay a few pennies, especially if you are referred to an emergency hopsital on emergency hours, but ultimately its up to you to decide how much and how far you want to go. Having a veterinary resource lined up now may be good for the future--be it tonight or tomorrow, if your chameleon looks worse, or in years to come--is priceless to have in times of emergency. I'm not trying to preach, but start calling around until you find a vet that will see her. also check out the ARAV.org website for herp-friendly vets.

sorry for typos, I'm late for work. Best of luck to you. I had a rescued Veiled in a few months ago that was in severe end-stage MBD and responded so well to calcium treatment that she actually cycled and produced infertile eggs. Unfortunately it was way too soon in her treatment to be bearing eggs, and she not surprisingly became egg-bound. My vet and I performed surgery to remove 13 retained eggs and I'm happy to say she did very well in surgery.

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