Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am experienced with lizards and turtle, but not so much snakes. I have had ball pythons and a hogg island boa in the past. To be honest, the fear of snakes is still in me a little. Can you guys give me a basic overview of the hog nose. I always see them, and am developing in interest in them. One of the post says they are mildly venemous? How serious is that? So if you can tell me size, distribution, feeding, and the handling and aggressiveness of them, thaat would be great. THanks in advance

Seems like your questions can be answered by searching through this forum and going to hognose.com. There are many discussions on hognose venom.

Since hogs don't bite, they will be a good snake to get you over your irrational fear!
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"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Hognose are probably the best tempered snake I've ever come across. I have never heard of anyone getting bittin by one unless it was an accident during feeding. They are great snakes. I would not call the hognose toxins a venom as it's closer to a salivory reaction. If you were to use that as a measure of venomous I would venture to say humans are more venomous than hognose as human bites are more nasty.

Apparently you have missed out on several important discussions on Hognose venom, check out the links below.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=317741,317948&key=2004
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=326807,331695&key=2004

Hognoses have genuine venom, derived from genuine venom glands, with genuine fangs used to deliver the venom. In no way could a human bite be classified as venomous, as any complications arising from it would be most certainly bacterially derived.
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"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Wrong....hognose do not produce protinaceous venom. Hognose do not have venom glands. Hognose saliva is considered toxic though not bacterially as other organisms. I've heard that the source of the toxicity in hognose salive are specialized enzymes.

What????

>Hognose do not have venom glands.
Then what do you call the gland that produces the secretions?

>I've heard that the source of the toxicity in hognose salive are specialized enzymes.
Then what exactly do you consider venom to be? It is modified digestive enzymes produced by a modified salivary gland. What you call a "specialized enzyme" is precisely venom.

I don't think you examined the links I provided. I am reinterating information provided by Dr BG Fry. I suggest you make your way to his website where he provides his venom analysis paper in pdf form. Don't tell I am wrong when you have to use the words "I've heard" to support your claims!
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"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

The glands of which you speak are called parotid glands. Parotid glands are nothing more than salivory glands, in venomous snakes the parotid glands are highly modified. In hognose snakes, they are not.

Some venoms are derived from enzymes, not all enzymes are venomous. Your arguement is like saying graphite is comparable to diamonds because they are both derived from carbon. True but misleading.

I use the term, "I've heard" because unlike you I have no wish of parroting misinformation. If you feel special believing you have a fanged venomous snake in your care, so be it. I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with you. But if you come off as the authority on Heterodon nasicus, I would suggest getting your facts straight and leaving your opinion at the door. Also, I think everyone on the hognose forum know their snakes are harmless, even if bitten.

If you're going to insult someone in the course of a civilzed argument, then you'd better make sure that you're right. In this case, you come off looking like a hypocrite, among other things. For example, you're criticizing Colchicine for spouting "opinions" when in fact the only person spouting unfounded opinions is you. Colchicine provided legitimate evidence in the form of a paper published in a professional trade journal written by a doctor. You, on the other hand, provide no evidence.
Perhaps you should read that paper before you insult someone like Colchicine, who has been a respected member of this forum for as long as I've been reading it.
Cheers!

Snip "Wrong....hognose do not produce protinaceous venom"

Enzymes are proteins....
What you are implying with this statement is that the venom produced by hognoses is not protien based. This indicates that it must be some other biologically active agent. If it isn't protinaceous then that leaves sugars and lipids... and now I'm drawing a blank.... I am unaware of any sugars or lipids that used as as a toxin that were not attached to a protien (ex some cardioglycosides).
Additionally an easy locaion of some of the information of Heterodon toxicity is in Snakes of the United States and Canada, Natural History and Captive Care. The bibliography contains at least one reference.

Some comments,

Ed