Reptile & Amphibian Forums

One of my new lizards is acting funny. He also has a dark circular spot right under the rib cage on th left side of his body if your looking at him upside down with the tail facing you. He also bagan to "roll" when I went and soaked him in the sink this morning. Now he's acting funny. He began staying under the shelfliner a couple days ago. He also seemed unstaedy on his feet before I soaked him.

Been feeding dusted crix in the mornings and salads with generous portion of silkies for the day. Misting twice a day and soaks at least every other. He's having bowl movements and there are no lumps in the digestive track and stools appear normal other than a little extra fluid I believe is due to the silkies. Temps are correct. Lighting and supplements are correct......

When I got him he was VERY skinny. You could see his entire spine, with the tail bone very prominate and the bone was visible in the tail a third of the way down. You could see his ribs and hes' doing the head side to side thing I just noticed. All of these symptoms are the same as the ones that the hypo-pastel I got from "you know who" had. He died about 4 or 5 weeks ago. Can anyone give me an idea what could be causing this?

If this one dies I'm gonna send it off for necropsy. Very strange. The cage and everything in it are new also. There has been no possibility of cross contamination from any of the previous adeno incident and all of my other dragons are fine.

Any ideas guys?

Thanks,
Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

A picture would make it easier to tell what that dark spot is. The fact he is walking funny and unsteady would indicate his hiding isn't due to a desire to brumate. Is the dark spot yellowish at all?

You mentioned you had adenovirus in one of your dragons? Did you get this dragon from the same source or was it in contact at all with the affected dragon? If so there is a strong possibility that this one may have contracted adeno virus as well. Run a search on this forum for adenovirus, you should find many posts that could give you some suggestions. Also search for yellow fungus disease, which could be causing that dark spot. A vet check would also be a good ideal as well. If the dragond does die before you can get him to a vet, refrigerate the body instead of freezing as freezing cna destroy bacteria or parastes that could be the cause of his death.
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks for the reply. He is way to young to wanna brumate. He's only 10 ". If he has adeno it has to be from the person I got him from. The spot is almost like a bruise. I know he hasn't fallen or anything as he is in a rubbermaid tub with no climbing toys. I wish I could post a pic for you but I lost my digital camera in the pawn shop.... I don't think there is any way it could be yellow fungus.

Thanks,

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

We see a lot of little ones like this in the resuce and we kept losing them. Even if we force fed they often threw up. People got tired of losing animals and started trying different things. I don't know why this works, I have tried to figure it out and I am not sure. I just know that it works on about 2 out of 3 animals with these symptoms (unsteady on feet, trouble controlling extremities, head pointed down, rolling when picked up or set down)

Here is what they have started to do.

Make is to that no climbing is needed to get on the basking spot.

Three times a day with a syringe:
1st day:
Acidophiliz (4 drops)
Nutritional or Brewer's Yeast (2 pinches)
Electrodize 6 drops in one cup of water then withdraw about 1/2 a syringe full.
Some people use a pinch of Parazap also
Mix all these things togeher and syringe feed to the dragon.

2nd day:
Same thing but add a couple repcal pellets to one feeding.

Pushing food seems to make them worse. Calcium and D3 also seem to make things worse.

I don't know why this works. It just seems like it has. Hope this helps.
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Thanks Jen. I know he couldn't have been exposed to adeno as I bought rubbermaid tubs and bew shelfliner for him and my other two new hatchlings. I ran him through a parazap treatment for a week and he was eating really well and his tailbone disappeared and he even started putting weight back on his legs to the point that I couldn't see the tendons anymore at least. Then all of a sudden his appetite dropped again and today he started all those symptoms. Now he's stargazing and when he takes off running he does cicles. This is EAXACTLY how the other one was acting two or three days before it died. His beard is also getting dark at the bottom and when he is picked up it really darkens. Kinda like the other one. You know the pre-death darkening. God I hope it doesn't have adeno. These are the same symptoms I was seeing though in the whole clutch I lost last August or so. At least I've been very carefull not to cross contaminate now.

What do you meen by electrodize? I'll give it a shot and I started parazap again today as well. I'm gonna set up an appointment at the vet for this week to.

Thanks again!

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

Good luck. Sorry to hear about the little guy. Electrodize is an Exoterra product. Its electrolyes and such. Let us know how it turns out. I hope it doesn't turn out to be adeno.

I don't bring in new animals often at all, so perhaps I am living in a bubble, but is adeno really that widespread now? We see it occasionally in the rescue, but I mean like twice a year tops. We deal mostly with animals that were bred locally, sold to local pet stores, who sell them to impulse buyers without a clue. So these animals are relativly isolated, inbred, but isolated.
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I really don't know how wide spread it is but I do know that all these are symptoms that others have had and it tested positive for adeno. What else could it be? Also they have stunted growth patterns. The hypo-pastel I got was small for it's age and this guy is not growing at all either.

I got two dragons from Chris Allen and they grew fine and I have had no problems with them at all. I also have two hatchlings from Mike that are doing really well and have not had any problems with them either. It just seems funny that the clutch I had die, the hypo-pastell I got from Matt Bruner and the hatchling that I have now have/had the same symptoms with unexplained death. Also very strange that the rest of my dragons are fine and I've had no problems. Seems if it was something to do with husbandry etc. it would be effecting all of my animals. I think that the virus is wider spread than any of us really know.

I'm sure I've upset someone with all of this and again, I don't know if it's adeno or not. You say that you have 2 out of 3 respond to the treatment that you posted? Have you ever noticed if any other of the animals either housed with or come into contact with the animals displaying symptoms catch it? Or is it always siblings from the same clutch that you are dealing with?
I've been very carefull to not cross-contaminate this time around so I'm not worried about the others having it would just be good to know if you'd experienced that or not.

When you do have the adeno infected beardies come through, do they display these symptoms?

Thanks for your time,

Robert
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ralph Emerson

The disorientation and loss of muscular seem to have a variety of causes. They seem to releate to vitamin overdose, extreme malnutrition, and trauma amoung other things. The stunted growth is tied to any animal that is not getting proper nutrition or has a problem absorbing nutrients. Its hard to say if an animal is sick and small because it is not eating or of it is not eating because it has adeno. Many of Adenos symptoms are symptoms of other things as well.

I can't say how many adeno dragons recover with the treament I recommended because if they live we don't know if they have adeno. If the ones that don't make it there are a couple Adeno dragons each year.

If an animal comes in sick then we never house it with other animals. We try to find a foster home without other reptiles, and always adot them out warning against housing them with other reptiles. We do get in siblinge occasionally and it seems that its usually just one that is showing any signs of sickness and is extremely thin. the others do not show symptoms. This of course does not mean that they weren't carriers.

The adenos were very small, they had the disorintation, no appitite, they showed very similar symptoms. I have never had any adeno positive animals here, so I only saw them in passing, but yes they were very similar.

I wish I could help more.
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