Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Today me and two of my geckos visited a couple of vets who in all honesty new NOTHING about reptiles. It's frustrating when you call to make an appointment with an animal and they fail to mention that they have NEVER seen that species before. I did know when I first went to this veterinary clinic that they didn't specialize in reptiles. My main reason for going was to get an X-ray of one of my geckos. If I had access to a machine and knew how to use one I would have done it myself.

At first the vets were weary about taking an x-ray; they really didn't think anything was wrong with her. They had also never heard of impaction or constipation in geckos (obvious since he had never dealt with one before). Anyways they looked everything I was talking about up on a database and went ahead and took the x-rays.

My concern was that one of my females may be slightly impacted. There is sand in the cracks of the tiles in her tank and also in a small container in the corner where they go to the bathroom. Her appetite is still VERY good; she is and always has been the biggest eater. I haven't seen a bowel movement from her in a few weeks, but I'm not 100% sure that she hasn't gone because she is housed with another female. Her stomach also looks a little bloated and she has been a tad less active for the past month or so.

I saw the x-ray of both my geckos; they wanted to see both for a comparison. The one female in question has one small bright white substance (almost as bright as her bones) which is probably half the size of her eye located a little on the left in the middle of her body. This could be from the sand even though I have taken ALL of the precautions, or it could be from the chitin in the mealworms skin. I can't think of anything else, can you?

I did give her four daily warm water baths with no luck. My next attempt was to see if any waxworms would loosen her stool. The worms don't get here until the end of the week and the vet gave me some Lactulose to see if that would give her some movement. Has anyone else used it before? I just wanted to make sure before I tried it that it is ok to use on leopard geckos.

In any case I will be removing ALL the sand in the tank and feeding a more varied diet. The reason I stopped feeding a varied diet including crickets was because I didn't want them to eat any sand from the cracks in the process.

Thanks for any info,
Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Hey lisa, from what i saw of your setups there's not enough sand there for them to become impacted so soon! You said they found a white spot, as white as bone? Could it be an infertile egg?
Or even a fertile one???
Anyhue i've never even heard of lactulose but wanted to give you my support

good luck with them

Thanks Snarks, no it's way too small to be an infertile egg, unless I suppose it's just developing. Don't they normally develop eggs on both sides though? She is also only 7 months old, I would think (not sure) that that would be too young to develop infertile eggs. It also didn't appear to be very oval but I could be wrong.

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Silkworms gladly stay put and give up their life so your gecko can eat. They aren't for everyone because of the cost involved, but they are much more nutritious and my gecko loves them so. I guess what I am getting at is they wont run into cracks and hide in sand.

>>Thanks Snarks, no it's way too small to be an infertile egg, unless I suppose it's just developing. Don't they normally develop eggs on both sides though? She is also only 7 months old, I would think (not sure) that that would be too young to develop infertile eggs. It also didn't appear to be very oval but I could be wrong.
>>
>>Lisa
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>>0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
>>0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
>>0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
>>1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
>>1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
>>1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
>>0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
>>6.0 Bettas
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**********************************
Tim W. My Pictures
0.0.1 Leopard Geckos

Why doesn't kingsnake have auto login?

To avoid and impaction problems, dont you think it would be a good idea to get rid of the sand altogether??? ANY amount of sand is enough to cause impaction in a short period of time..... Again I can not stress enough how much bad info is just being blurted out around here these days......

Anyway sorry about your bad experiance with the vet..... Try to use a few drops of mineral oil..... Sometimes this can help move an impaction along..... Hope your leo get better.....

I will be getting rid of all of the sand just incase anyways. Hopefully, she does pass whatever it is and I'll be able to get a good look at it. I do know that I have taken all of the precautions that all of the pro sand people have stated in the past. This way if it is sand I can state that no matter what it can and does cause impaction. Just so I don't get flammed for saying this here is a list of the precautions I have taken.

They are fed only from a dish (and everything is dusted with a calcium powder that includes D3 and other vitamins),
They have a large dish of pure calcium carbonate in their tank,
The sand is only in the cracks between the tile (about 3mm at most)
The warm side in their tank is kept at 95 degrees, cool around 80

I know there is more that I just can't think of because it's too early in the morning.

My experience with the vet actually wasn't bad, just frustrating. I have unfortunately had much worse experiences in the past. I just wanted to confirmed my suspicions and I did.

Maybe I'll try the mineral oil before the lactulose. Again if anyone has tried it please let me know.

Thanks all for your opinions,
Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Not in a gecko, but I give it at work sometimes (I'm a nurse lol). Its a stool softener. I'd give it a try it may just do the trick.
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Heather
1.1 leopard geckos: Geico and Tiny
0.1 husky/hound mix: Savannah
0.3 pet rats: Faith, Zelda, and Cherry

Thank you for your reply. If I don't soon hear from someone who has used it on a gecko I'll try a tiny bit.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Can you see any dark lumps that are visible on her abdomen or was it something in the x-ray only? Normally with impaction there would be some outward sign of impaction, especially if it is large enough to block up the digestive tract. Another possiblity, it may be a calcified area, that would explain the white area on the x-ray that looks as white as bone. I may have missed the part about your gecko's eating...is she eating? I am not sure of using lactulose in leos. I am not farmilar with the product.
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www.hullabalooherps.com

My vet checks for impaction by holding my gecko up to a light and looking for an dark spots, i do this from time to time because i use sand.

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~Akira
1.0 African Fat-tailed Gecko
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko (hypo tangrine circle-back?)
0.0.2 Red Ear Slider

I have not seen any dark spots except I believe her kidneys (I may be wrong). It has been stated here many times in the past that this is normal. Forgive me I don't know exactly what it is, but in anycase this is the only dark area in her stomach.

Thanks,
Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Thanks Hill. There are no dark lumps at all. The vets felt the stomachs of both animals and determined that hers did feel firmer. The only outward sign is that she does appear a little bloated, but it's not extreme and could just be her body shape.

She is eating, infact she still eats the more than my other geckos (about 15-20 mealworms every other day).

Could a calcified area have any effect in regards to slowing her bowel movements? I have seen a couple of hard, almost crystalized, urates in the past. Some of the hard urate has been from one of my females (possibly her) and I have also seen it from my male. Thanks again. All and any info is greatly appreciated.

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Ive had crystals in the urates too, however they went away with less calc supplements.

Could I be giving too much calcium I wonder. Right now I'm just using the T-REX IBC leopard gecko dust at every feeding because that's what it states to do on the package. However, they are mealworms and we all know how easily dust comes off of them during feeding. There is also a dish of straight calcium in the tank, but I honestly don't think I've ever seen them use it. I hesitate to decrease the amount of calcium I'm giving them just because MBD was the diagnose that the vet gave me for poor old Rex when he was dying.

Thanks again,
Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Yah i remember about Rex,
however adults i think only need dusting of calc once a week. The crystals the yellowy/brownish ones are from over supplementing, it turned up in both my leos and my crested so i dusted less. This was also discussed on the other forum. Their stools are now back to normal.
I think your best bet is to wait for the pros over at fauna to give you a reply.

I know but it's taking so long. I would really like some more opinions on whether or not I should use this stuff. I just want to be sure. It seems like no one has tried it on a leopard gecko before, that's makes me a little hesitant.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

If she is still defecating I'd rule out impaction. Fecal matter wouldn't really be able to move past a blockage...that is usually the real cause of death, poisoning due to the waste build up. Is the leo getting enough water, there maybe a kidney issue or I would agree with snarks, too much calcium supplementation. Make sure your leo is getting lots of water. Leos really do need water, sometimes that gets overlooked because people figure they are desert animals. Good luck with your gecko, let us know how things work out!
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www.hullabalooherps.com

maybe separate this gecko to insure she is having bowel movements. If she is having bowel movements I would hold off using the lactulose.
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www.hullabalooherps.com

I did separate her for a couple of hours after each time I gave her a warm water bath. I guess after forking out so much on their current tank I don't really want to buy another tank, heating pad... but your right, I'll look into them tommorow.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

I'm pretty sure she hasn't defecated in almost three weeks, but not 100% as she is housed with another leo. I have seen a few times what looks like an attempt but no luck, that's another reason I began to worry. They do have a large water dish that is always full. I know she knows it's there as she used to constantly use it as her toilet, yet another reason I suspect she hasn't defecated in a while, unless she decided to stop being so stubborn and go where I want her to (not very likely but possible). Their humid hide is also always moist enough that there is condensation on it, I believe this is where they get their water as she is in it at least three hours a day. How would I be able to find out if it is a kidney problem? Are there any signs?

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

and she had the same crystal urates you describe. My vet (who is VERY good w/herps) said that if you can see the kidneys, there's a problem. I learned quite a bit about what all those diff color lumps are under a gecko. Little too much to add to this already long post. Try the mineral oil if you're still concerned, but it doesn't sound like impaction. Feel free to e-mail me @ geckogirl6@comcast.net (not the link here) and I can give you more details.
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1.0 Pastel/Jungle Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
1.0 Hypo from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Albino Hypo? (Cloud)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

There are no dark lumps, only the organ located in the middle of her stomach. However, I have been under the impression that it is ok to see this organ, especially in juvies. I believe I have even heard it from a sponsor of this site. I thought it was the kidneys but I'm not sure.

What other signs appear with fatal kidney disease in leopard geckos?

I know this post has become very long so I'll e-mail if you don't want to reply.

Thanks so much,
Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

kidneys, if you can see them (which you shouldn't) would be pink/white lumps immediately in front of the pelvic bone. If they are normal, they will be tucked under (if you're looking up) the pelvis. Just before she died, Peaches' kidneys were two of these one on each side, and they got bigger like weekly. She drank an awful lot for her size, and yet the crystals continued. As for diet I can't say b/c Peaches was on a babyfood and a/d diet when she passed. She was very lethergic, perked up when she started to put on a little weight, but then became lethargic again and so weak at the end she could barely pick up her head to drink. Do you have a UVB light? I use them, and can see a diff in my gex. If you do, you could cut the calcium without worrying too much and see if the crystals disappear. Also try either misting her or letting her drink from a syringe or eyedropper so you can see how much she's drinking. Also, my vet said if they do have this kidney disease, you would generally see some signs before they were 8 months old or so. If your gecko is like 2 yrs or more, I would consider it low on the list of suspects. Good luck, and do keep me updated!
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1.0 Pastel/Jungle Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
1.0 Hypo from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Albino Hypo? (Cloud)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

k from what i remember the dark organ is the liver which is normal. Try a UV, cut the calcium that's what i had to do even though i know you had a horrible experience with Rex.
Also i'm not sure how kidneys can be related to calcium but whatever maybe xelda can answer that

For another cage make it a temporary rubbermaid with a human heat pad. Simple,cheap cage furnishings until she becomes "regular".

Also here's another shot in the dark, high fiber gutload for your mealies?

This is a little off topic but I had a similar problem with my new leo designating the water dish her toliet. I just had to move it for her. She still goes in that spot but now I don't have to change my water dish every time she goes.
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~Akira
1.0 African Fat-tailed Gecko
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko (hypo tangrine circle-back?)
0.0.2 Red Ear Slider