Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I always used newspaper and haven't been able to get good mulch for a good price in my area. The only things available are Pine and Cedar - even in all the nurseries and plant/seed stores.

What exactly are the problems with using these as bedding for boas and/or pythons?

I've heard several times about the 'oils that are extremely toxic to their skin' but have honestly used both on two occasions, one knowingly and one unknowingly, with excellent results! Never a problem!
The animals appeared to be rejuvinated practically overnight! Excellent skin tone, outwardly healthy, immaculate sheds. I've fixed seriously bad sheds this way.

Can anyone share any more detailed reasons and examples why not to use these?
Can anyone provide or show details of problems and issues that have developed because of this?

This is not a challage, this is merely and inquiry.

Hope to hear from any and all of you!

thanks and take care - Joe Rollo - BciJoe
-----
Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Hi Joe, I have used pine shavings before in the past, for rats, mice and pythons, boas, kingsnakes, etc... I never had a health hazard with the natural pine shavings sold at walmart. I never tried cedar shavings for snakes, as I just guessed because the fumes of natural cedar are a natural bug killer, I just did not want to take any chances. I did use some for bedding with mice years back, and a friend told me even that was no good. I just steered clear of cedar alltogether. The pine shavings did have some sap problems, and so I ended that after I found out about aspen bedding. It is a little more cost but seems to last longer, and I heard is even more digestable for snakes if accidental ingestion occurs. The aromatic oils in cedar are said to have toxic vapors, that is all I know about them. Try cypress mulch from lowes or a landscaper. I use simple newspaper as it has always worked best for me, and cypress in tubs like Rich Ilhe does to give change of conditions. Check with companies for getting newspapers they recycle...or ask your neighbors, chances are the old folks will be glad to see you stop by on a regular basis, when you go to collect the papers. Hope this helps. Andy Federico

Hi Joe. I can tell you from experience that cedar is a killer. It WILL kill your snakes if they are left on it for an extended period of time. When I was a kid, snakes were kept on gravel and that was that. Well one day, I saw someone using wood shavings as a substrate and since I also had pet guinea pigs and hamsters, decided to try the cedar shavings on MY snakes. So I set some up on it, and then a day or two later went off to summer camp for a week. When I came back, all the snakes I had on the cedar were dead. The ones that were on gravel were fine. Lesson learned.

As far as pine goes, I've never used pine shavings for very long, but don't suspect it would be harmful. I HAVE used pine bark nuggets for years at a time with some of my snakes with no apparent ill effects. These days I use either newspaper, aspen or cypress mulch for my snakes.

Bottom line is DON'T USE CEDAR!! Billy

>>I always used newspaper and haven't been able to get good mulch for a good price in my area. The only things available are Pine and Cedar - even in all the nurseries and plant/seed stores.
>>
>>What exactly are the problems with using these as bedding for boas and/or pythons?
>>
>>I've heard several times about the 'oils that are extremely toxic to their skin' but have honestly used both on two occasions, one knowingly and one unknowingly, with excellent results! Never a problem!
>>The animals appeared to be rejuvinated practically overnight! Excellent skin tone, outwardly healthy, immaculate sheds. I've fixed seriously bad sheds this way.
>>
>>Can anyone share any more detailed reasons and examples why not to use these?
>>Can anyone provide or show details of problems and issues that have developed because of this?
>>
>>This is not a challage, this is merely and inquiry.
>>
>>Hope to hear from any and all of you!
>>
>>thanks and take care - Joe Rollo - BciJoe
>>-----
>>Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
>>'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

This was a post by "oldherper" on october 16 in the venomous forum. It is the best post on the subject that I've ever read.

Posted by: oldherper at Sat Oct 16 22:10:33 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

The ingredient in things like pine shavings that can cause harm to a reptile is Phenol(C6H6O). It is present in pine shavings, but not to the degree that it is present in cedar shavings, especially if the pine has been kiln dried. Kiln drying the wood releases most of the aromatic hydrocarbons and phenols.

Cedar is dangerous to reptiles (and other animals for that matter) because of the high levels of these compounds present in cedar. With pine shavings, most of the danger would be from inhaling the dust.

Phenol is a very toxic chemical. It is carcenogenic and can cause respiratory symptoms in reptiles as well as a host of other problems.

1g of Phenol orally ingested is a lethal dose for a human. Extended exposure to smaller amounts leads to liver failure, kidney failure, respiratory failure and deteriorated CNS function.

While pine shavings do not present the same level of risk as cedar shavings, why take the chance? Aspen shavings perform the same function and have none of the same potential for risk.

Phenol does have it's uses. It is used to manufacture certain resins, for manufacturing phenolic, as a cleaner and disinfectant, and in certain medications. It's just not a good thing to have in your snake's cage.
-----
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Make syou not want to use pine for anything...

.
-----
Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin