Reptile & Amphibian Forums

is this possible ? I mean not probing and counting but just visually counting. If so, how reliable would this method be.

In most species there is dimorphic variation of tail length and this would obviously make a range in scale counts but the variation between each individual is variant enough where you would most likely not be able to rely on it s an accurate means of sexing. I am basing this off primarily anacondas because that is where my most knowledge of scale counts is. I am interested to see what others say though.

I've found rattlesnakes can be done pretty reliably (I've done it with C. durissus with surprisingly good accuracy). I had a dozen or babies come in from Costa Rica a year or so ago,and was having my vet take blood samples. I did an "eyeball" of their tails and then had her probe them while tubing them for the blood sample, and came out 100% correct on all.

Now, we weren't actually counting subcaudals, but comparing the relative tail length to total length AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, looking at the degreee of reduction in the width of the tail as it tapers right at the vent.

For other species, in particular, it is less reliable. Specifically, bushmasters....I don't believe anyone can reliably sex them by looking at the tails, at least not as juveniles, and even as adults, I'm skeptical. Bothrops can be just as difficult (though some males are dimorphic in tail tip color); Atropoides...a little easier.

I would think for species, such as Arboreal colubrids----its near impossible. I just received two juvenile Spilotes pullatus from Costa Rica, and there's no way I can tell the sexes by looking at the tails.

Hope this helps.

MH
www.matabuey.com

I think you were the one that told me about that a few years ago, Matt.
What are you planning on doing as far as the NYS bill goes? Going back to Pennsy, to Pennsy, to Pennsy? Damn, LL Cool J. I'm wondering if it can be changed when knitwitt is out office. I'm thinking about stocking up before the 1st, I have all these lonely cages waiting for some company and a safe LEGAL place to keep them.
Shoot me an e-mail if you don't want to respond here.
-tom

and I'll keep them, and if they breed, they breed. I'm not losing sleep over what a few liberals in this state pass, thinking they know whats best for the voters of NY state.

It's not worth losing sleep over.

Get rid of Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn----G.W. won NY State easily!! NY is a conservative state. NYC is not, therefore, I am not going to lose sleep over what liberal legislators think is best for the state, especially, when they are NOT experts on venomous snakes, the husbandry OR safety. I will listen to DEC, at least we have animal specialists drafting the regulations.

as the ESP? Can you send me a link or some info that has some clarification on how and what people can keep, and what licenses will be available?

Tom,

The regulations are even drafted yet. I can't answer anything, only that the bill allowed provisions for an exhibitors license. That's all I know. I am simply going by my interpretation of the bill.

An exhibitors license is what you'll need to have any of them. PLUS take the 4hour course. You may get the Exhibitor permit, AND STILL get refused on an ESP permit, simply because DEC decides that just exhibiting timbers isn't sufficient. I don't know. It'll be DEC's judgement.

You will most likely have to submit a record of shows/displays where animals are displayed I would think, so they circumvent people just wanting snakes as pets. That's the whole point.

.

I figured you may have had a little bit more of an idea than the general public. At this point, I'm not interested in the ESP, just a loophole or something so that I can keep venomous, so if an exhibitors license is what is needed, then that is what I would try for, given that it isn't as stringent as the ESP.
I would think there are alot of people looking for the same loopholes, unless people are just going to give up on keeping them legally. I don't know if I'm going to reach that point.

so I still have that going for me. So if I can't find a loophole for hots, I can still keep those little beauties, or drive 70 miles one way from Pa to work.

Sexing Eastern Diamondbacks is very reliable. Males have 26 subcaudal scutes, females have 20-25. (In my experience females almost always have 20-23.)

Sexing Timber/Canebrakes is not as reliable because there is a 3-4 scale overlap possible. If you find one with 20 it's definitely a female; If you find one with 27 it's definitely a male, but the problem is you'll find many with 25 or 26 and you just won't know for sure.

Hope This Helps

Chad Minter
http://www.envenomated.com

ack, the plus sign didn't show up ... that reads in Eastern Diamondbacks have "26 plus"

Sorry about that, apparently kingsnake.com thinks plus signs only appear in html.

Hope that clears things up,

Chad Minter
http://www.envenomated.com