Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone,

Shannon made an interesting point that some breeders out there consider hypos to be extremes when in fact they are just super hypos or extremely light band appearance. I see huge differences just by looking at posts here and in the classifieds and I sometimes shake my head. For those of you who can honestly say they have a genuine "extreme hypo", would you please post the pics so others can be educated? Thank you for your time.

np

There are several different opinions on what an extreme is.

I don't beleive anyone is an expert on these YET!

Here is a good thread I suggest reading:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=600799,601575

well heres a pic of a extreme hypo with a "not so extreme"that was purchased as a extreme.

anyways,you can see that its nothing more than a light hypo.

I think the extreme hypo is a specific line and not just a look.

shannon

Shannon,

Thanks for posting pics of 2 snakes that are totally different and hence really show the difference between a real extreme and pseudo-extreme (meaning, not real but just ultra light). I can see the postings several lines above this and I hope people take notice of it, including the posting of Terry a couple of lines below.

I initially posted the thread in the hope of coming close to a standardization of what an extreme is versus say, a super hypo or just a light colored band hypo. Part of the fun of getting into hondurans is for all herps enthusiasts to come up with some consensus of when a snake should be classified properly... it is better for the species, it is better for the general public as well. Thanks a lot.

ray

just curious because I wasn't mentioned in the reply
thanks
mgl

Thanks for replying to my thread, mgl. Sorry I forgot to mention your "extreme" hypo pics. It does look to me like an extreme. The point I was trying to drive at was the shiny silver/bright gray band would have to be under normal lighting and not some artificial lighting that would make the bands look like shiny silver/bright gray bands. That's what happened I believe when Shannon purchased a hatchling and he claimed that it looked extreme online but when he got it, it was clearly not. But I think yours is an extreme.

Thanks man,

Ray

No, I definitely know what you mean...very valid points. I try not to mess with the color on the photos (plus my camera isn't the greatest). I actually took pics a few times of him and he came out normal looking. In person he is a stunner and his lineage is solid....now the task of finding him a wife

thanks
mgl

never responded?

Thanks shannon

Hey Shannon,
I sent Paul an e-mail directly...it is from Falcon's line produced by Mike Alvarez (I think the first pair that were actually sold from Falcon--could be wrong though). Both the parents were extremes. I believe Terry has the parents now.

thanks
mgl

produced not all extremes, but some extremes and some regular hypos-(I'm sure lighter looking hypos though, I only saw a couple extremes and from pcis too). Its weird with pics of hypos, i can take a pic of a hypo hondo, any hypo and make it look extreme, or very close, just by whihc angle you take and which way the sunlight is comming, I was taking pics for 2 regular hypos I have and soem of the pics came out looking like full on extremes, I was like damn, these look like extreme hypos, of course you dont use those pics, but just wanted to mentionthat.
Jeff Teel

I got a male also from the same guy and it looked totally different then the picture. When I asked him about it nt being an extreme hypo I was told that he never said it was a Falcon extreme so I'm leary about pictures. Don S.

this is the female I got from mike falcon as a hatchling. she's now an adult. i don't think there are many adults yet, the extreme is a pretty new phenomenon. This one's got "dark" rings that are so light they're sort of flesh-colored, pale tan, what would you call them?
terry

Hi Terry,

I sent a reply to your thread but made a mistake of sending it directly to you for the public forum to read. Did you get my reply?

ray

Just a Super Here to keep things fun....

Image

Hey Adam,

Yup, i believe that this super hypo of yours was recently from Kevin Hanley (great guy, I may add). I think it was his M89 super hypo. I got a bunch of high end hatchlings from him this year and this super hypo of yours is really an awesome one even if it is not an extreme. An extreme is no better than a super hypo or a super hypo is no better than an extreme. It is a matter of individual preference. All are good.

Thanks for sharing.

Ray

cause he bought it as a super hypo.That snake was produced by Mike Falcon and his line is the line that mine and terry's are from.
They were being called super hypos even up to late last year.We all got together and decided that the name extreme suited them better and to not confuse them with Steve Osbornes "Super hypo's"

anyways,If it is from Mike Falcon it is a extreme and that snake is.

Thanks shannon

Shannon,

I did ask Kevin that question before and I think he still classifies it as super hypo... but no disagreement from my camp if that one is called an extreme by a lot of people. My point really is sometimes pics on line are not the best in terms of lighting, shading and stuff. You actually see it and appreciate it more in person what an extreme looks like as opposed to some that really are not extreme but pushing the envelope. But yeah, I think even if I only see the pic of that snake that Kevin had, it is safe to assume with calculated certainty that it is an extreme. Hopefully, some of the hatchlings I got from him will produce some extremes when the time comes... you never know.

Thanks.

Ray

Ray and Shannon,
Yes, It is Male 89 Super Hypo from Hanley's Herps that was produced by Mike Falcon's animals. He ( Mike) called them Super Hypos when he sold them back then.
Now having 2.1 animals from the same pairing that produced this one that is shown and the other male which is a Hypo but the bands are not as light grey. Where did the name / title/charteristics change? What I am trying to get is a better understanding of from the original pairings that Mike did would all the Hypos in the clutch be the Newly named " Extreme Hypos" or would there be lets say 2 levels of Hypos, Hypos and Extremes and Pos Het? This is where it gets confusing to me and where they are today and what others title them and then mix with the different morphs. ( I can see it now, Move over Hybino, New Now! - Albino het Extreme! ) I can see everyday the visual difference in various hypos but they are still hypos and some more of a refined degree and that is the rewarding part of this hobby to take it to the next level and see what we can produce and not get all worked up with a name / title.
I want to keep it fun and learn more everyday and see what may come each year.

Mike Falcon has a pair of regular hypos (I have seen them and one is acually not very good even for a normal hypo and the other is really nice) that he breeds every year and he gets all hypos ofcoarse but there is always roughfly about 25% of them that are super,extreme whatever we want to call them?

He called them super hypos the first two or three years he produced them.It became apparent to us that steve osborne had a line of hypos that he was also calling super hypos.We all got together a couple years ago on this forum and decided to call them extreme hypos just so they wouldn't be confused over any others line.

Kevin had already bought his male #89 and he also bought a sibling hypo female from the clutch that wasn't a extreme but a hypo none the less.
anyways,I was just saying that the snake he has(had or whatever) is the same line of extreme hypos that terry and I also have,
It would be nice if you could call it a extreme hypo just to be on the same page as us but you can do as you please,It is what it is and time will tell if it is a hypo line of its own or just a extention of the only known hypo line to date?

later shannon

shannon's right about the history. You can see an Osborne "super hypo" on the classifieds today, in fact: it's a beautiful hypo variant but not the ultra-light kind of thing that we're discussing here. That's why, as shannon says, the issue was discussed here, alternatives considered, and since the visual effect is that the animal is extremely light, or that there's an extreme reduction in melanin (compared to regular hypos) that the term "extreme hypo" both distinguished them from steve's AND was descriptive, always a good thing in naming.

But right now it simply describes a look. We don't know yet how the genetics work--again, as shannon says, is it a new morph? or an extreme end of a range of possibilities from "regular" hypos? mike alvarez bred a pair of extremes (from mike falcon) this summer and one of the six babies, at least, was not an extreme imho, i saw them in person. Maybe a different male was put with the female uninenttionally once and forgotten and fathered the non-extreme baby; or maybe extreme is not a simple recessive.

It's just a fact that there's more we DON'T kbnow right now than we do know. So more breedings, more speculation, more observation, more discussion. I'm sure we'll figure it out sooner or later. It would be very nice if it turned out to be a simple recessive, but....

peace
terry