Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was reading a post down the page about the Motley and Stripe genes, and really got me to thinking. I have a normal and anery that I'm not sure if they are mot stripe, or just poor examples of one or the other. The normal has no black except the black eyes. The anery gets lighter with every shed almost to the point now that its really just two shades of grey. I'm real curious how the offspring from this pair will look. I know they are supposed to be normal, but what exactally is normal with this morph? This first pic is the female Hillary.

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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

This is the male Angus. They are both 02's and I'm sure they will cange a lot before they are mature enough to breed.

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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

np
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

Those both appear to be motley/striped individuals. Breeding them together should give you (assuming no other hidden hets):

25% motley, het for anery
50% motley striped, het for anery
25% striped, het for anery

How motley will the motlies look, and how stiped the stripes will look is anyone's guess. The motley stripes will be in between the two norms.

The way to tell a stripe apart from a motley stripe is the width of the center stripe down the back. This is the ground color stripe about which I am speaking. If it is wider and the saddle colored stripes on either side of it are narrower, the animal is a stripe. If the middle portion is narrow, or uneven due to mottling, and the outer, saddle colored stripes are wider, then the animal is a motley stripe.

Hope that helps some...
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Thanks for the info on how to identify the two patterns. I was under the impression that striped motleys always produced striped Motleys. One of the big time breeders at the show when I purchased Angus told me that you could never get a fully striped snake from a stripe mot. This morph will always confuse me. Maybe I need to go back to school.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

You never know with corn snakes.These are from a Motley x het Motley cross! So, what will you hatch? Have FUN!

This is one of their hatch mates that was the expected result!

Thats a awesome snake. I really like that one.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

Well, I don't know who the big time breeder was who told you that you cannot ever get a fully striped snake from a stripe motley animal (and I am not asking to know either), but if that is indeed what you were told (and there was not some form of miscommunication involved somewhere) I would have to beg to differ.

Since the stripe and motley genes occupy the same location on the DNA chain, and only two genes can be found at any one location, then if you breed a stripe motely to another animal carrying the stripe gene in either a homozygous or heterozygous manner, statistics show that you will get fully striped animals (with no motley genes involved) sooner or later (assuming you could breed that pair forever...statistics are just probabilities, after all; not guarantees).

Breeding a stripe/motley to another stripe/motley (if that is indeed what they are) is going to statistically break down as I outlined before. It is no different than breeding any other two animals that are double heterozygous for recessive traits, except that, because these two genes are found at the same DNA locus, there is no way to have normally patterned babies.

All of this is predicated upon the one caveat that I offered in an earlier post. That being: We simply are not sure about the finality of what we now suspect concerning these genes. Oddities have shown up from time to time, but saying that stripes cannot come from breeding stripe/motlies is not one of them.

Hope that clarifies it a bit...
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Some times mt brain doesnt here what the lips are saying. Im definetly not gonna get on here and miquote someone. That person happens to be one of my heroes. Another question. Any idea whats at work causing the colors to wash out with age? Is this normal with anery stripes?
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

I don't know if it is the motley thing or not.But my motleys have gotten lighter with each shed.This is a recent pic of the stripe.Take notice how much lighter she has become.

From last year

When I first got into corns I really didnt care much for Motleys. But the more I see pictures like yours the more i get into them. Thanks and keep them coming.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

Last year

I don't presume to be anyone's hero, but just in case I was involved in this, the conversation might have gone like this. I've told people not to expect striped corns when breeding a striped motley to just any old thing. As Darrin correctly said, breeding a striped motley to a striped corn or another striped motley should yield some degree of a striped corn. I just have customers ask now and then if they'll get striped corns from breeding their striped motley to something else and I say 'no' unless they're breeding to another of the same genes. The confusing part is that some motley corns are actually striped motleys that didn't show any striping so sometimes the surprises are pleasant ones.

Here is a shot of the difference between the pattern of a striped motley and a striped corn.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET

South Mountain Reptiles

Both of you have been a great help. Some times I think my head is going to explode. One thing about corn snakes is you can never learn too much. Luckily theres guys like you to explain things to us novices. And besides everyone needs a heroe or two.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

That striped amel motley is outstanding. Do they all get that red, or is that just luck?

Thanks, but shes not an amel. Unfortunatley Im not qualified to answer your question. Apparently the motley gene somehow masks the black or something. If you look at the pictures she has black eyes. Ive always wondered if maybe she has a little hypo working in her. But once again I have no idea.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

I think most of the confusion with the Striped and Motleys is the Striped name. A Striped Motley can be pure Motley, but have great dorsal Striping. When people say Striped Motley do they mean a Motley with Striping or a corn that is a result of a Striped X Motley breeding?

Legend:
Motley (mm)
Striped (ss)
Motley/Striped (ms), but

A Striped Motley can be (mm) but just have a dorsal stripe from head to tail. Just because a Motley has striping does not mean it is a result of a breeding of Striped X Motley. Another problem is that since the two genes are so mixed up these days, it is very difficult to recognize what genetic make up the adults really are.

The picture that Don posted is a great illustration, that a Pure Striped Corn (ss) and Pure Striped Motley (mm) look very different. The problem is that just about all people think that the Motley in that photo is a combo of the two genes, Motley/Striped (ms). It could be is the problem, but not necessarily. Motley/stripes (ms) can look very much like Motleys or like Stripes. They are co-dominant to each other and can be at one extreme or the other.

I think if we use Motley/Striped for the mix of the two genes and Striped Motley for a pure Motley that has dorsal striping, it will help a great deal, but there will always be confusion, because STRIPED Corns is being used as a name, and STRIPED Motleys is describing a pattern. Striped/Motleys will still be confusing, but if we reverse the order to Motley/striped, I think it will help a great deal.

The confusing part is the that genetic Striped Corns and Genetic Motley corns are located at the same locus and are alleles, and that is a very difficult concept to get straight for anybody, let alone a newbie.
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Joe Pierce
Snakes Alive!
"Home of the guaranteed feeders"
"If it won't eat, it is not worth a dime!"

I agree. The genes are so mixed up unless you by from a well known reputable breeder you can trust, you really dont have any idea what you are buying. I picked my anery out of a tub with about 50 snakes in it. I chose him because I really liked his color. He has turned out to be a great feeder, and one of my favorites.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel
1,0 kisatchie
1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 charcoal
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
0,1 tx rat
4,5 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,1 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,2 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

he seems more like a striped, i have my first striped, he's a lighter color, but he's still just a babyu, i know they will grow darker.