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I keep hearing this??? To my underatanding both this snakes have a mild venom that can make bites swell and itchy but are no real threat to ppl...anyone knw????

I read on kingsnake.com says that all colubrids (i think) are venomous but lack a venom delivery system (fangs) and also lack the ability to produce copious amounts of venom. I have no clue if any of it is true or not, but i HAVE heard the same thing you have.

the key to this is where the species lives. certain garter snakes in africa are venomous, mild they believe, and i have heard of certain south american species of hognose who are mildly venomous. the thing w/ all colubrids being venomous is that some have duvernoy's glands, which are what create venom in colubrids, rear-fanged snakes. to my understanding not all colubrids have this gland. hognoses are one species which does, and some also have larger teeth in the back of their jaw to help "pop" the frogs which they commonly eat.

Bryan Fry's site

Bryan Fry (BGF) has done considerable research into this very thing. He has his paper from his research up on his site. It's an eye-opener.

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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

>>Bryan Fry's site
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>>Bryan Fry (BGF) has done considerable research into this very thing. He has his paper from his research up on his site. It's an eye-opener.
>>
>>
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>>We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Bryan Fry's page

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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

>>I keep hearing this??? To my underatanding both this snakes have a mild venom that can make bites swell and itchy but are no real threat to ppl...anyone knw????

Most colubrids with few exceptions have venom glands that secrete venoms. These contain many of the same groups of toxins also found in front-fanged venomous snakes (Elapids, vipers), and are often quite potent.

However, most colubrids are unable to inject enough venom into humans to cause any symptoms. Occasional garter snake bites lead to substantial swelling and pain, and hognoses can cause this rather more frequently. The link below shows something approaching a worst case scenario.

Basically, we need to divorce the concept of "venomous" from the concept of "dangerous". It's no different from the spiders that we all have in our houses: all are venomous, but only a tiny fraction of a percent are dangerous to humans.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
Hognose bite

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While not the best method, groved teeth are efficient in facilitating the duvernoys gland toxins (venom) secreted from the "gums" of these colubrids. Some colubrids like mangroves, hognose, and boomslang (extreme and deadly) (and of course many more) have evolved a slightly more efficient "rear fang." Some species are longer and more curved than others making it nearly as efficient as a hollow fang with the way the snakes have adapted in their methods of biting prey. Now I am going to read that article oldherper posted in hopes to learn more.

The venomdoc site is awesome, it has lots of great info and doesn't sensationalize it.
I think it was this forum that had the awesome pics of a hognose feeding on a mouse. The "rear fangs" arn't that far back, just below the eye. They are much more developed than a garter snake, whom I believe doesn't have actual fangs. Instead it has a minute amount of venom in the oral secretions. This is why the prey items will stop struggling before they are finished being swollowed. While never being bitten by a hognose, my red-sided garter from up north could not get through the skin with a bite. Just tiny pin pricks.